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**N2_sh00ter** · May 9th, 04:05 PM

In my class today, I was talking about mags. A kid who plays pb alot comes up and is like mags suck

, dont buy one. Im say I like mags and already ordered one (my proclassic, comes tommarow!

). So he stops saying how they suck, and I say how Im goining to try to get an xvalve. He says dont get an xvalve, they suck and they are really slow

. He then says his worracle will own any mag. What a mag hater.

**AGD_kid** · May 9th, 04:38 PM

plant drugs in his locker.

**N2_sh00ter** · May 9th, 07:27 PM

Hey, thats an idea.....

Alpha · May 9th, 10:25 PM

Tell him that yes, older mags do suck, and they have a bad reputation for being heavy, blending, slow pieces of machinery.

But now, they are light, fast, and have features that match or top some top end guns.

Explain that yes, classic valves are relatively slow, and most older mags are heavy and chop, but things like the x-valve (which can cycle up to 26 times a second without shootdown, and has been proven and tested past 30bps), level 10 antichop bolt, and UltraLight Engineering has brought mags far.

'Tell him that he's being shallow, and is passing judgement based on the design he knows- the circa 1991 automag.

In reality, you could say angels suck. They chop, get ruined easy, and are slow.

*Yes, about 13 years ago they were. But not anymore. Same thign with mags.

***phazeshifter*** · May 10th, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpha

Tell him that yes, older mags do suck, and they have a bad reputation for being heavy, blending, slow pieces of machinery.

But now, they are light, fast, and have features that match or top some top end guns.

Explain that yes, classic valves are relatively slow, and most older mags are heavy and chop, but things like the x-valve (which can cycle up to 26 times a second without shootdown, and has been proven and tested past 30bps), level 10 antichop bolt, and UltraLight Engineering has brought mags far.

'Tell him that he's being shallow, and is passing judgement based on the design he knows- the circa 1991 automag.

In reality, you could say angels suck. They chop, get ruined easy, and are slow.

*Yes, about 13 years ago they were. But not anymore. Same thign with mags.

Alpha, you disappoint me...
It's the circa 1991 Automag that was the first semi-auto to win a national tournament! Mags have always been better than Autocockers (ever had to time one?). This is my opinion, but it is based off of many, many games involving both guns. Usually, the only reason a Mag would chunk paint, is because it was short-stroked. The Mag A.I.R. Valve didn't change in design from 1990 - Present.
Don't bash old Mags--they are the roots of the great AGD family tree.

**dhill0413** · May 10th, 12:53 AM

worracle > xvalved mag.

sorry but true, if its tuned well.

Alpha · May 10th, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phazeshifter

Alpha, you disappoint me...
It's the circa 1991 Automag that was the first semi-auto to win a national tournament! Mags have always been better than Autocockers (ever had to time one?). This is my opinion, but it is based off of many, many games involving both guns. Usually, the only reason a Mag would chunk paint, is because it was short-stroked. The Mag A.I.R. Valve didn't change in design from 1990 - Present.
Don't bash old Mags--they are the roots of the great AGD family tree.

I'm not bashing them. Find me a gun from back then that wouldn't chop! They mowed muppets for their time, but in todays paintball game, they aren't quite top of the line.

**AGD_kid** · May 10th, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhill0413

worracle > xvalved mag.

sorry but true, if its tuned well.

mech= eh

x/e/devilmag= whole new game.

**N2_sh00ter** · May 10th, 04:32 PM

any mag>any cocker

**frontnthechaos** · May 10th, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N2_sh00ter

any mag>any cocker

dont you mean any mag<any cocker

**N2_sh00ter** · May 10th, 06:03 PM

No, i dont. I hate cockers

**AGD_kid** · May 10th, 06:59 PM

older ones are nice, and so are pumps.
and if you want to talk history my boss has an OLD OLD black rightfeed cocker with serial- 00001.

***phazeshifter*** · May 12th, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhill0413

worracle > xvalved mag.

sorry but true, if its tuned well.

You, my friend, are a victim of HYPE. You probably believe that the "closed bolt accuracy" of the 'Cocker is what makes it a superior gun. Right...

**Kdrx1** · May 12th, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phazeshifter

You, my friend, are a victim of HYPE. You probably believe that the "closed bolt accuracy" of the 'Cocker is what makes it a superior gun. Right...

A worrblade is going to be fast and make for a really nice cocker. I personally don't like cockers, but i know that when they work they mow. A worrbladed cocker will be faster than a legal mech mag, but not "better". Also, the cocker is going to cost alot more in the long run.

Devilmag,>Any cocker. IMO
Emag~Electro cockers

***Little_Ho*** · May 12th, 11:19 AM

Hi

I owned both. Currently i have a VFTactical and my Mag and a B2K4.

I personely shoot the Mag the most. Then the B2k4 and then the Cocker.
I swaped from a Cocker to a Mag. Then I got hit (Brain sais customize it) and I Customized my Mag. I love it to death. I would not trade it for any Gun on Earth. The Cocker and the B2K4 getting dusty meanwhile.

Go and let him say that Mags sucks. Get the Guys you are talking to aside and let them Shoot a Mag and the Fieldstrip it. The let them do a Cocker. Plus tell them to Time it......lol

That will be fun. I mean let them Time it. Even the Guy wich said Mag sucks.

I would like to see that look on his Face....lol

BTW are we talking about Mech Markers or Electro?????

Because I am confused.......My MECH MAG can shoot 21BPS without Shutdown or Shopping......lol

I woudl say that will outshoot the Cocker...
Ok the downside it needs a lot of Air, but hey the most Fields seeling you All Day Refill anyway.....

Here is the link to my Movies and of course a Pic...show it to him and see what hes saying....

Mag Movies made by Little_Ho

here is my Mag shooting with Paint

here is the Pic of my MECH MAG!!

Have fun

Little_Ho

**Oscarine** · May 12th, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phazeshifter

Alpha, you disappoint me...
It's the circa 1991 Automag that was the first semi-auto to win a national tournament! Mags have always been better than Autocockers (ever had to time one?). This is my opinion, but it is based off of many, many games involving both guns. Usually, the only reason a Mag would chunk paint, is because it was short-stroked. The Mag A.I.R. Valve didn't change in design from 1990 - Present.
Don't bash old Mags--they are the roots of the great AGD family tree.

..Timing is not very time consuming for Mechs and practically non-existent for eye-enabled Electro cockers, however I digress on that point. I had a mag in the early 90s it wasn't worth the money, frankly I liked my illustrator and VM-68s ALOT better than the Mag, partially due to CO2, but man it was sensative.
My first cocker was also from the early 90s a stock model with a 3.5 oz tank hooked directly into the vertical inline and I had alot better luck with that than I ever did the mag of the same era. It seemed alot less sensative to CO2, once I got it from National I pretty much never touched it until I got rid of it timing wise and it was always fairly decent (strangely I still liked the illustrator better...).

Mags certainly don't suck, I splurged recently on a Nice X-Mag, however its probably alot of personal preferance but I still prefer my Karni, DC1, and Osiris over it pretty much any day. It is however a marvaleous piece of engineering and quite attractive =P

Thing for me is, the Mag is pretty much it, I don't have alot to look forward to, theres really nothing to upgrade at all, which is I guess a good thing. However I'm a tinkerer at heart and I love to change things on my cockers, and there is an abundane of performance/appearance related upgrades as well as new technologies (ie MQ-Valve) mean I'm usually pretty excited about them. Call it excess, call it unnessecary, call it a marketing gimmick, it however is still amusing for me =P

For Little Ho, the VF-T isn't a great comparison, I've owned one albeit briefly, and while its certainly not a bad marker theres nothing spectacular about it, and the parts are mostly middle of the road and its still a mech, a mech without an ACS system like a LX Mag has. Ok for its intended market, but really not a good value for since you mentioned 21bps from your Mag, rapidfire. On a good day you'll be getting ~10 BPS if your used to shooting a cocker without shortstroking.

Compare that to my Osiris, which I paid like 750~ for which spits out programmed 22-24 BPS full automatic while laughing at the potential to chop (just being showy) or the ease of operating it with a 80g microswitch and a really short trigger pull (alot easier than trying to attain high ROF on a Mech Mag for someone unpracticed).

This is all a tired comparison thats been done for over a decade now and even if your just saying Mag vs, somehow cocker always gets thrown in there =P.

Both markers have there place with the people that love them, and follow inherintly different philosphies in the players that prefer them. With mags theres not alot of variety in the realm of Performance, ultimately you usually get some tool comparing his really nice Mech/Electro Mag and they really all are nice since part difference in later generations is minimal when it comes to performance to lets say..... a '99 Right Feed Cocker with a Slide trigger thats maintained by someone who considers spit a good lubricant because thats what he uses in other activities.

So a comparison between a Mag and a Cocker I'd say (Which Cocker) is it a Karnivor a Nexus DC2, an Osiris, a PBX Mini, a Racegun Halfblock? ....or is it an old STO, a Prostock, a Drallion, or a Psychoballistics Lightning..... differences are night and day really.

Let me end this by saying the place I find Automags excell at over virtually anything other than AKA Owners, is overall community. I've never really met a person with a Mag that wasn't helpful, informative, and a solid sportsman on the field. Its a generalization, but its my view from my experiences with other mag owners.

**AGD_kid** · May 12th, 05:56 PM

for people who know what they are talking about it will always be said-

which mag VS which cocker

also, Oscarine RRfireblade (Jay at PTP) is working "Fireware 1.0" which will be a new software with semi, ramping, NXL, and other modes. or you could just go for a pred board.

**Oscarine** · May 12th, 06:16 PM

Yeah I read about the software upgrade over at AO.