[Alpha]

Here is a place to discuss anything about the pneumatic modifications (and hopefully in the future, upgrades) for mags. Pneumatic triggers have ben a concept and have been real for some time, but in the past year or so, theres been lots of interest in someone mass producing a factory made bolt on upgrade for mags. Its been shown that these guys[triggers] can pump out some 20+bps, and even my own garage-made hand dremeled mod has a sub 1mm pull.

As you can tell from reading this post, theres a lot going on today about who is making a pneumag frame, who gets to make it, who should make it, and who's fault it is that it never happened.

Lets try to be a bit more civil, folks.

Long live TK

Automags.org - Pneumatic Mag Walthrough*Warning, this takes you out of PBF and to AO. Conduct yourselves in a respectable way if posting on other forums.*

I fugured we could do with a sticky. I'm sure myself or RRFireblade (who is working with PTP to develop a drop in pneumatic trigger.) can answer any questions.

I'm working on my own personal model right now.



Here I've mounted the MSV-1 (which is a micro limit valve. You push the pin, and the circuit of air is connected). Note the absence of a trigger and length of the nail I'm usign as the pin. Today (6/30) I ground down the nail and have it the way it will be permanently.

It is under a 1mm trigger pull. I will get an actual figure tomorrow (with updated pics).

I did do a short movie which I probably will edit in the coming days.

So post away

[jacobeid]

make mine pneumatic please, kthxbye.

But really, nice job. Hopefully some people are smart with that kind of stuff and can save some money.

[Alpha]

Sub 1mm pull. Probably around 5 or 6 ounces, depending on the input pressure. The reg is really great, so theres almost no dropoff.

[Zeotranatix]

I love you ... again. Vid plz !!!
Im sure it would rip.

[Alpha]

Yeah I have a small vid, I'll try and do it up today. Its by far nothing working, I just wanted to tape myself testing out the parts. I only had like 300psi left in my tank too, and I didnt loctite the reg so it was leaking out of the threads.

Im going to buy a dremel today. Woot!

[Alpha]

What better way and place to celebrate my 5000th post then in here?

[Kdrx1]

in the lounge with cake and tits

[AGD_kid]

and a midget...

[big_balla]

Would you really do this for other people? Like, if I sent you my frame and cash?

[Alpha]

I would love to, but PTP's patent is holding me back. I'm doing some of my own research into the patent. I found a statement in one of Tom Kaye's patents that sort of conflicts with the Pneu-mag patent PTP currently holds.

I WILL be giving you guys a detailed (as in video clips with each step, if I ever get my computer to accept my camcorder :) guide And I'll post it up here and throw it on alphamag.com too

[Zeruel]

Good work Alpha. I want to see if it is possible to make it fit in my hyperframe. Not that I really need it considering it is a 13bps Hyperframe, and I can easily hit the cap, but just for fun

[Alpha]

You know this thread isn't just for me, you can post any pneumag news/info in here. Ideas are welcome on my project.

I just tested mine out the second time.. And this time, it worked much like I hoped. I'm still unsure of what pressure to go (I'd really like to double reg it so I can cange pressure in smaller incruments).

I was testing with one of my ruined actuators, but it sorta worked. The piston is in two pieces becuase I broke the epoxy off... Long story. Maybe on the third trial I'll figure out a way to bolt the riv-nut into the delrin piston.

Anyways, I just popped my thumb on the actuator, and started walking away (while the reg was leaking.. Needs loctite).

I didnt get to fine tune anything (and remember my thumb was being used as tension for the actuator), but I estimate I was walking 14-15. Not bad at all. The trigger was very light.

I bet if I was in a mor comfortable position I could've gone faster for longer.

[RRfireblade]

Originally Posted by Alpha

I would love to, but PTP's patent is holding me back. I'm doing some of my own research into the patent. I found a statement in one of Tom Kaye's patents that sort of conflicts with the Pneu-mag patent PTP currently holds.

No it doesn't. But if it looks like it might it's because his trigger assist Patent was sold to him by PTP.

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by RRfireblade

No it doesn't. But if it looks like it might it's because his trigger assist Patent was sold to him by PTP.

No, I'm talking about the RT patent. Theres a paragraph that conflicts with a paragraph in the PTP patent.

[RRfireblade]

PTPs predates his tho,so he's the one in conflict. FYI, PTP's predates Tippmanns RT trigger as well.

And a last FYI, neither of that has any impact on a third party in any case.

[AGD_kid]

[RogueFactor]

Originally Posted by RRfireblade

PTPs predates his tho,so he's the one in conflict. FYI, PTP's predates Tippmanns RT trigger as well.

And a last FYI, neither of that has any impact on a third party in any case.

Which patent of PTP's(patent number please) are you referring to in relation to which patent of AGD's(patent number please) and Tippmann's(patent number please)?

Lets get a little more specific Jay.

[AGD_kid]

Originally Posted by RogueFactor

Lets get a little more specific Jay.

because

[RRfireblade]

Originally Posted by RogueFactor

Which patent of PTP's(patent number please) are you referring to in relation to which patent of AGD's(patent number please) and Tippmann's(patent number please)?

Lets get a little more specific Jay.

Ask Alpha, he seems to have done the reasearch.

Tippmanns RT trigger patent is an easy find and I'm not even sure which specific AGD patent he's refering to. A couple of Toms filed patents are a) still in application form or b) requiring resolution and currently inactive. I'm not going to give out any specifics beyond what can be found in a USPTO Patent search since that would be an obvious breach of disclosure. There's certain AGD's Patents that were sold to Tom by PTP in the first place regardlesss.You want to argue the specifics of the claims? You look them up and figure it out, it' not my job.

For the record, none of the Patents in question are mine, nor do I have anything to do with the filings so I can really care less about the whole discussion. I'm mostly just pointing out that any conflicts, should they exist for any parties involved , have absolutely zero effect on an outside or third parties interest. Meaning , you still can't infringe on either partys holdings without threat of legal action and damages.If anything, it would mean BOTH parties may have grounds for legal action.

And lastly , since this is another huge misconception in Patent law, Prior art of any Patent filing does NOT mean a single thing to anyone other than the party that holds the prior art.It does NOT give a third party rights to infringe on said Patent in any way, shape or form unless they prove that 'they' have the prior art or the rights to it.

As for Alpha, You to Rogue for that matter...

Build , sell ,manufacture , whatever you want. I really could care less if it infringes on someones Patent or not as long as it's not one I hold. I was just pointing out the obvious which is that the parties involved with the 'current' patents under focus right now are avid Forum readers and since K2 owns license to PTPs patents, thier massive reserves of high dollar Patent lawyers are ready, willing and able to enforce thier newly gained assets.Currently that is one of thier primary focuses right now as evidenced by the curent WGP IP being enforced as we speak.You've only begun to see the beginning of that from what I'm told.

Other than that,

Have fun.

Jay.