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Old September 23rd, 04:03 AM   #1 (permalink)
linuxpimp20
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Noob to N2 - have some questions.

Hi. i've played paintball for two seaons and used a mechnical marker so CO2 has been fine all along. I ordered an ION for my birthday and decided to switch to N2. I looked around to see if i could get N2 filled around where i live and an army supply store fills them and says there equipment can fill 3k psi. They had a few tanks and one was a 48 cu tank and 3000 psi. (Could that also be written 48/30?) PMI for a hundred bucks and i figured i could get a better deal online. I ordered a PMI 72/30 for 70 at action village. i wanted to stay under $100 because i had just order the gun and other items and didn't want to spend too much. So i have a few questions about N2.

1. If i had ordered a 4.5k tank would the army store be able to fill it and it just wouldn't be able to be used at it's full potential or would they not be able to fill it at all?

2. Is the reason paintball guns don't work well in the cold is because of the CO2? Would i be able to use my HPA tank during the winter or does the cold affect other parts of the marker as well? I figured i could get in more practice shots during the winter while my Co2 buddies won't be able to practice.

3. Like i asked above could my tank be described as 72/30? i've seen them refered to similiarly? And does a higher cu mean more shots? I've read multiple a 4.5k tank cu by 15 for the amount of shots and a 3k tank by 10 to get the number of shots. Is that true?

4. Are remotes good for n2 tanks? How does that affect the pressure going to the gun? I don't like the sizes of the n2 tanks much and want to get a remote so i can strap it to my back. I always used 9 oz C02 tanks.

5. Finally are N2 tanks any more dangerous then C02 tanks? Is there any habits as a CO2 user that i may have picked up that i should avoid switching to N2? Is there any habits i may not have needed to pick up using CO2 that i should using N2?

I'm sorry for all the questions but i want to make sure i know this stuff because A.) don't want to mess up my brand new marker and B.) more importantly don't want to get anyone hurt. Also im the first in my group to start using N2 so if any of the guys want to switch over and have questions i can answer them. thanks for any replies in advance.
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Old September 23rd, 09:23 AM   #2 (permalink)
Alpha
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1. No... Let's say you have an 8 ounce cup of water, a 20 ounce bottle, and another 8 ounce cup. You could fill the 8 ounce cup with water, all you'd have to do is pour water from your full cup into the empty cup. You could also put that water into the 20 ounce bottle, it just wouldnt fill it all teh way. You can still drink from the bottle, you'd just have less water in it.

So in other words, yes, they could fill a 4500PSI tank, but they wouldnt be able to fill it all the way. They would simply fill your 4500PSI tank to 3000PSI. They could fill it to 2000PSI if you asked them. But they cant fill it over 3000PSI because their equipment can't pump air at that high of a pressure.

2. Paintball guns don't work well in teh cold because CO2 is a liquid when its in the tank. Before it gets used, it expands into a gas. This rapid expansion uses up a LOT of energy. Since a lot of energy is being converted, the temperature of the CO2 rapidly drops. This makes all the precious seals inside your marker to shrink up a little and can cause leaks.

HPA, on the other hand, is always a gas. That's because its a stable mixture of many different gasses. Temperature changes really won't affect your marker, unless your playing on the surface of the sun with your HPA tank... It has a very high resistance to temperature change, where CO2 has a rather low one (considering it can't exist as a liquid at room temperature and normal atmospheric pressure)

3.
a. You can say it however you want... 70/30, 70/3000, 70ci/3k.
b. Higher internal volume means more air. More air means more shots. More pressure means more air in a smaller volume. For example, a 72/3000 is roughly equivalent to a 45/45. If you have more pressure, you can have a smaller tank and still have the same amount of shots.
c. The equation isn't really accurate. Every gun uses a different pressure (even two of the same guns could use different amounts of air depending on settings). There are MANY variables included, but those numbers will give you a very vague ballpark estimate.

4. Remotes are good for nothing. It doesnt affect your pressure or performance at all. REmotes will, however, do a great job at getting you tangled up, add confusion to your setup, and restrict your movement dramaticly. With a remote you are essentially tieing your gun to your back. HPA tanks aren't large, you're jsut used to playing with somethign small. The size of a 68/4500PSI tank is perfect for most people over 5'10". If you have longer arms, you might want a longer tank. The size of these tanks is perfect to use a a shoulder stock. Without a tank to press into your shoulder, you sacrifice a LOT of accuraccy. A longer gun means you can judge distances better. Trust me, a remote will only hinder your game.

5. No matter what we're all running around with high pressure tanks strapped to ourselves. These tanks are all tested very rigorously. A 4500PSI tank is actually tested to 7000PSI before its sold to you. SCUBA divers have been using similar tanks for over a half century with very minimal incidents. As long as you don't rush and have a qualified person fill your tanks, you will be alright.

As far as bad habits go, you dont have to worry about your o-rings as much. CO2 can freeze and subsequently crack your O-rings. Compressed air wont do that.

Also, I noticed you using the term HPA and N2. There IS a difference.

HPA is the air around us compressed under high pressure. When you hold your breath, your lungs are essentially a HPA tank.

N2 is Nitrogen, the element. The air we breathe is 78.6% nitrogen, so HPA and N2 can be exchanged without any worry on your marker. To the paintball player, they both do the same thing.

Your gun needs nothing special to use compressed air. It is a screw on modification to your marker, and is one of the best things you can buy. I highly reccomend saving up and buying a carbon fiber wrapped tank. Steel and aluminum tanks (almost all 3000PSI tanks are steel or aluminum unless otherwise stated) are heavy and hold less air. Almost all 4500PSI tanks are carbon fiber wrapped. They have an excellent weight to air capacity ratio.

$100 for a 48/3k is a ripoff. Be careful of your army surplus store. If they charge you mor ethen $10 for a fill, you're getting ripped off. Check out www.pbreview.com for a field listing guide and look for a nearby field to get fills.

Let me know if you have more questions, I'm always happy to help
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Old September 23rd, 10:03 AM   #3 (permalink)
linuxpimp20
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thank you for your reply; it was really in-depth and helped me out a lot. I've always used C02 with a mechnical gun so going to N2 with an electronic marker i feel like a noob again - but that was one reason i wanted to do so to try something different to improve my game. I played more of a sniper role with my gun because i had a long barrel and liked that play style but with the ION i'll be able to be more agressive and play the front more taking skills i learned from my sniper position and hopefully learn new skills as a frontman to take back if i play as a sniper again. As a sniper i learned to really be aware of my surroundings and movement so i can take that to the front so im not doing haphazard run thoughs. Thanks again for your reply.
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Old September 25th, 10:43 AM   #4 (permalink)
linuxpimp20
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it cost 5.99 to get a tank filled at the army store. I had a question about lubing the tanks. To make it easier to take out at the end of the day i always put a little lube on the threads of my CO2 tank but i read somewhere they don't recommend it for N2 because it gets warms and some of the oils are petroleum based. I noticed when the guy handed me back the tank it was warm - is that normal for N2 fills? Is it akin to when you get your C02 filled at first it is really cold? thanks for your replies.
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Old September 25th, 11:14 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Co2 tanks are cold after they're filled because that's just the way they are. The tank being filled has to be colder than the source for it to work properly.

HPA tanks warm up because that's what happens when air is compressed. You force it into a smaller volume, higher pressure, and it raises its temperature.

The thing with oil and HPA tanks is that you can't get it inside the tank. Putting it in the fill nipple is not good under any conditions.
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Old September 25th, 11:55 AM   #6 (permalink)
linuxpimp20
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so a small dap on the threads is ok or is it too risky to bother?

edit: Also do the N2 tanks fart when they are empty as well?

Sorry for all the questions. Thanks for your replies and patiences.

Last edited by linuxpimp20 : September 25th at 12:07 PM.
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Old September 25th, 12:28 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I've smeared a little oil on the o-ring before. Of course if its giving you problems its just as easy to change it for a new one. They make them everyday.

'farting' is what blowback style markers do when they don't get enough air pressure to function, CO2 or HPA won't matter.

With guns higher on the food chain, the velocity starts to drop, the range suffers, and then the marker just stops working.
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Old September 25th, 09:52 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I put a little shocker lube on the threads of my ASA on my Ion. Can't hurt a thing. Just a little though.
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