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***Barber*** · June 9th, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Compressed air is just what it sounds like; it is the atmospheric air we breathe, compressed to high pressure. N2 is nitrogen. Over half of the air we breathe is nitrogen. When used to power a paintball marker, they perform the same. Most places fill with HPA.

The advantage of air/N2 over CO2 is that CO2 is stored in the bottle as a liquid, and must expand to a gas to power most paintball guns. This process makes the air unstable. Also, the expansion process absorbs heat, which is why your gun gets cold when you shoot with CO2. Because of this, CO2 will cause you velocity to spike at times. CO2 has problem in certain weather also. Electronic guns have problems with the electronics freezing, thus causing problems. Some problems are severe.

HPA is always in a gaseous form, thus making it more stable and more consistent when powering a paintball marker.

Taken from kjjm4 off PBN

Avanters · June 9th, 04:03 AM

Good post

Sticky

Avanters

**HP_lovecraft** · June 9th, 03:39 PM

In summary:

CO2:
Cheap, lighter, more effecient, less maintenence, easier to use.

HPA:
Less Shootdown. Not effected by cold weather. Better FPS stability. Does not harm pneumatics.

In general, CO2 is usually the best propellant for newbies to use. HPA won't provide them any advantage since they won't fire the gun enough to have shootdown, or notice the FPS problems.

But a PRO will notice those problems. If you are going to shoot more then 200 rounds a game, you will notice the major problems with CO2. Your tank will freeze, your FPS will spike and cause penalties, and it might damage your pneumatics.
These are serious issues, and its worth the cost/weight/effeciency issues for the other benefits.

Co2 is stored as a liquid. Much like propane, and its measured by weight, NOT pressure.

HPA/N2 is stored as a gas. A 68/3K HPA tank is 68 cubic inches, and the gas is 3,000psi.
Its roughly equivalent to a 45/45 tank (45 cubic inches, at 4,500psi).
Its usually best to avoid the 45/3K tanks. They are very cheap, but hardly supply enough gas for even one game.

What if you don't like CO2, but your local field does not have HPA? There are options.
For electros, you can use a mixture of anti-siphons, regs, expansion chamers, remotes, and drops to get pretty good results.
For blowbacks, you can use a siphon tank.

Nick

**outlaner_0990** · June 9th, 03:44 PM

^^^When you say that a 45 (47 in my case)/3000 isn't enough for a game, you are only right for SOME guns. My timmy can shoot 600 or more shots on a 47/3000, but most blowbacks can't touch that. I doubt other gas hogs *cough shocker cough* couldn't either.

**HP_lovecraft** · June 9th, 04:37 PM

I'm sure the 45/3K can be usefull in limited applications.

As long as you KNOW that it has enough to last you a game, then your all set.

But most kids get it because they hear that "HPA is the greatest thing in the universe", so they buy the cheapest tank out there, and then realize it can't get them through a game.

nick

***Barber*** · June 9th, 04:40 PM

Never ever make the mistake of a steel tank. They are heavier than your gun.

**Javaman** · June 10th, 01:47 PM

One thing to keep in mind about the whole CO2-HPA debate is that the biggest advantage from using HPA is because of the built-in regulator not because of the gas source. HPA's pressure actually varies more then CO2's, going from 4500-0 PSI while CO2 will stay roughly around 850 and might vary +/-500psi depending on the outside temperature and rate of fire(+/-500 assuming normal operation. Leave your tank in the sun or overfill it and you could go up to several Ks). The problem in using CO2 is that most lower-end guns are calibrated to shoot with a roughly 850PSI airsource. As rapid firing occurs the temperature and pressure drops in the CO2 tank which causes a velocity drop off. With a regulator set to output well below 850, say 450psi and the gun tuned to fire at an acceptible velocity at that pressure you will get many of the gains of a HPA setup with few of the minuses of a CO2 one.
1.- Less noise 2.-More shots per fill (Liquid CO2 stores much more gas then HPA per volume) 3.-reliable velocity (no spiking or dropoff assuming no liquid passes the reg) 4.-Cheaper price.

I have yet to see proof that CO2, being considered a dirtier air causes any more damage to the internals then regular friction does apart from Tank O-rings failing after improper removal.

**bcham1** · June 11th, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barber
Never ever make the mistake of a steel tank. They are heavier than your gun.

some people are on budgets

**bunkertime** · June 11th, 10:26 PM

Java Man? are you protecting CO2 or something?

Co2 Damages your internals in that it can freeze and DESTORY $70 noids, Destory all types of o-rings, causes Many inconsistancys, and is very dirty.

HPA is the way to go. Spend $60-$80 on the Tank and you are set. and when u say CO2 store more per volumze think of the weight too. you can store a good amount of gas in a 45/4500 and it will always be light weight

**Javaman** · June 15th, 09:52 AM

Not at all. I'm just posting a different perspective then what many people have.

HPA is a nice thing to have for higher end guns which have delicate parts (regulation is manditory) or shoots at extreme speeds, but for lower-end guns there is no need. If the gun is properly set up to prevent siphoning (Down angled ASA, Anti-siphon tube or expansion chamber) Liquid CO2 isn't going to be a problem. It has the potential to ruin ASA O-rings but only if the tank is removed improperly. It does get very cold as a gas, but not to the point of damaging seals. There is so much metal mass throughout the gas system that it acts like a heatsink preventing the gas from super chilling. I've used unregulated CO2 for over 5 years and have never had to replace an internal O-ring. As long as O-rings are lubed correctly to prevent friction damage they should last a long time. I covered the inconsistancy part in my previous post.

The claim that CO2 is dirtier is, I believe, a big load of crap. There might very well be other gasses in the tank which make it unpure but that's the same case with HPA unless you are running Nitro. It's all a moot point because guns are exposed to the huge mix of gasses in the atmosphere all the time. In the sense of having particulate dirt in the tank that can be a problem with all air sources. Does everyone keep a plug on their HPA fill nipple? If not it'll inject dust or paint into the HPA tank during the next fill if it happens to get dirty or shot. I can't speak for all guns, but most of the guns I've worked on have inline screens to block dirt and other particles from getting into the valve area.

That is a very good price for HPA tanks but does that include the price of the built in regulator?

Assuming that it is a fiber wrapped tank you might be right. Does anyone know what CO2 tank size is equivelant to the number of shots you would get from a 45/4500 tank?

BTW, what part of the upstate are you from? Let's hook up and play sometime!

Quote:

Originally posted by bunkertime
Java Man? are you protecting CO2 or something?

Co2 Damages your internals in that it can freeze and DESTORY $70 noids, Destory all types of o-rings, causes Many inconsistancys, and is very dirty.

HPA is the way to go. Spend $60-$80 on the Tank and you are set. and when u say CO2 store more per volumze think of the weight too. you can store a good amount of gas in a 45/4500 and it will always be light weight

**DeViLs_SouL** · June 16th, 10:03 PM

i think that hpa is cheaper than CO2...
u spend 80 buks in a tak (much more expensive than co2) but when ref the tank... its almost free!

**Mooseman1710** · June 20th, 10:52 AM

how much is a decent HPA tank... aim me for the link please
AIM m00seman1710

**DemoCommando** · June 20th, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeViLs_SouL
i think that hpa is cheaper than CO2...
u spend 80 buks in a tak (much more expensive than co2) but when ref the tank... its almost free!

Are you sure? At my local shop its like 4.00 a fill! WTF! It's more than a co2 fill.

***Barber*** · June 21st, 02:49 AM

I get free all day air. Also, thank you to the people who contributed in this thread.

**headbussa** · June 28th, 12:29 PM

cant you rent a tank from like a scuba store and buy like a lil fill station thing and fill your own air

BushmasterMAN · June 29th, 02:55 PM

in california all fields have fill stations so when a game is over you can refill it yourself free...

**sileighty** · June 30th, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BushmasterMAN

in california all fields have fill stations so when a game is over you can refill it yourself free...

is this true for all paintballfields in cali ...........because i could name a few that do not give out free air.

BushmasterMAN · June 30th, 09:51 PM

well you cant just walk their and get a refill,you have to buy something or be paintballing there that day...but if you do either its free where I go...

**Blaine2005** · July 2nd, 01:13 AM

so it is true steel tanks weigh a lot more?

what are the other tanks made from?

if i'm playing with a bunch of freinds far from a paintball feild what's the best hpa tank i should get so that i don't have to refill?