EBlade tuning - a GatorGuide - Paintball Forum - Paintball guns and gear forums
Reply

Old August 7th, 2006, 11:47 PM   #1 (permalink)
redneck with a blowtorch!
 
jaggy13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: I-Da-Ho
Posts: 2,406
EBlade tuning - a GatorGuide

A good friend of mine wrote the following guide that is stickied on another forum. I asked him if I could sticky it here as well. His response was "as long as I get credit!" So here it is. The simplest and most complete guide to tuning an ebladed autococker that I have ever seen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GatoradeA-5
So, lots of people are asking questions about eBlade/E2/ZeroB settings. I am writing this to answer those questions. Some of this is relevant to T-Boards as well, but not all of it. I might post a T-Board addendum later.
Here’s a disclaimer before I start: There are NO “best” settings that will work on every gun, because every gun is different. People use different rams, different regs, different bolts and backblocks, have their reg pressures set differently, etc. “Naughty Dogs (or whatever team or pro player you want to talk about) settings” may not work on your gun, or may not represent the fastest your gun can be. Remember, most pros are sponsored by gun companies, and are stuck using the stuff offered by that company, which may not be the best available (WGP is not renowned for producing the best cocker parts – the crappiest rams I’ve ever owned were STOs). We the consumers have the benefit of getting to choose the best parts from all the manufacturers to put on our guns, so we can make ours better than what the pros use. So don’t put too much faith in settings that other folks are using – you might use them as a starting point, but take the time to tune your settings to the best for you.

First and foremost, let’s look at what the settings mean:
SON is the amount of time the sear solenoid is activated. It is also the “dwell” time of a mQ setup. On recent boards, it has a maximum of 4.0 ms.
CDEL is the delay between when the sear solenoid is activated and when the cocking solenoid is activated (the amount of time allowed to actually fire the gun before the cocking/loading cycle begins). On the more recent boards, it has a minimum value of 4.1 ms.
CON is only relevant when the eyes are OFF! It is the amount of time the cocking solenoid is active when the eyes are off. When the eyes are on, they override the CON time.
CTO is only relevant when the eyes are ON! It is the amount of time the board will wait for a ball to be chambered before closing the bolt.
COFF is the amount of time the cocking solenoid must be off before another firing cycle can begin, allowing the bolt to close fully.

The maximum ROF (with eyes off) of any set of settings can be calculated by the formula CPS = 1000/(CDEL+CON+COFF). As mentioned before, when the eye is enabled, it overrides the CON time.
Let’s use Factory Fast as an example of what I mean. Factory Fast settings (on a ZeroB v.1.10) are: CDEL 6.0 ms, CON 55 ms, COFF 24 ms, for a total of 85 ms per cycle. 1000/85 gives us the maximum ROF (with eyes off) of 11.76 cps, which the ROF display rounds up to 12. This is why many people say the eBlade is capped at 12 bps (They’re wrong; it’s only “capped” if you’re using stock settings and not using your eyes).
With the eyes off and Factory Fast settings, your gun will not shoot faster than 12 bps. If you use paint and a fast loader, it will “magically” shoot faster, because the eye overrides the CON.

But what if you want it to be faster still, even with the eyes off? Guess what – we can do that! Eclipse graciously gave the user full control (well, almost full - there are some minimum/maximum values) over the timing.
Your LPR can also affect speed. The settings control the amount of time that the cocking solenoid is active, whereas the LPR controls the amount of force applied during the time it’s active. If you’ve taken high school physics, you should remember that impulse = force x time. The impulse applied to the backblock by the ram is what actually recocks the marker, so increasing the force (turning your LPR up a tad) can allow you to decrease the time, and increasing the time can allow you to decrease the force (turn down your LPR a tad).
What does this mean in easy words? A higher LPR can make your gun faster (within reasonable limits – no amount of force that a standard LPR can deliver will allow your gun to cock with a CON of 1 ms). Of course, it can also increase your odds of breaking paint, so it’s best to be balanced with your timing and pressure.

So let’s start by tuning your LPR. Put your gun in Classic mode, look down the feedneck, and pull the trigger. You want to be able to see a small sliver of the bolt in the back of the feedneck. If you can’t see the bolt at all, your LPR is probably too high, and you are running the risk of having rollbacks and chopping the next ball in the stack. You should turn your LPR down and try again. If you can see lots of bolt, you may not have enough force to reliably cock the gun or allow a ball to drop into the breech. You should turn your LPR up and try again. Now that you have your LPR tuned, let’s move on to electronic timing.

CDEL times can be lowered to 3 or 4 ms without affecting the performance of most guns with a traditional hammer and poppet valve setup. I’ve found that a time of 5 ms is best for my mQ Karni, but your individual set up may vary. Like I said before, the minimum value for this setting on the newer Eclipse boards is 4.1 ms, so you can probably just set this for the minimum.

Now on to CON. If you don’t care about actually being able to shoot paint with your eyes off, you can lower your CON time quite a bit. A value as low as 30 ms (combined with a decent LPR pressure) will be sufficient to cock most guns that have a well-lubed, good quality ram with QEVs. You may be able to go lower, especially if you have an mQ valve (because with an mQ, the ram no longer has to push against the mainspring when cycling the bolt). If you have no QEVs or a crummy ram, you may need a higher value to ensure that the gun cocks reliably. To set your CON time, tune your LPR first, then set your gun for semi and turn the eyes off. Set the CON time for a low value (20, for instance) and shoot. It probably will not cock. Increase the CON and shoot again. Continue to do this until the gun cocks consistently every time you shoot, then add a millisecond or two to be on the safe side.
If you plan on ever shooting paint with your eyes off, it’s best to leave your CON time fairly high (around 50 ms) to reduce the chances of chopping paint. You won’t get the quickest possible ROF with eyes off, but your gun will be just as fast with the eyes on. I run my CON time at 47 ms, so if I ever have to turn my eyes off mid game (because they’re thoroughly gooped or something) I can continue to shoot (my Reloader B can reliably feed in that amount of time – it’s actually faster, but I added in some safety time to allow for weak batteries, etc). Depending on what hopper you use, you may want to run a slightly higher time.

You can also lower your COFF time – 18 ms is more than sufficient for most guns running a ram with QEVs and a hammer/poppet valve setup (like with CON, you might be able to go lower). mQ guns tend to need a higher value here to avoid shootdown, (which results when the gun fires before the bolt is fully closed, due to the fact that the mQ opens quicker than the standard valve setup) – I run mine at 22 ms. Tuning your COFF is harder than your CON, because it’s hard to tell if your gun is firing before the bolt is fully closed. The best way I know of to do it is to start with your COFF at the default time (24 ms), set your gun for PSP mode (since 15 bps is as fast as most people will ever shoot), load up some paint, and shoot a string. Then decrease the COFF time and shoot another string. When it gets too low, you’ll notice wicked shootdown – turn it back up a millisecond or two.

SON and CTO do not affect the rate of fire. Leaving your SON at the factory default is probably a good plan (the exception is those of you who shoot mQ valves - then you may need to tune your dwell a tad. CTO should be left at a fairly high number as well.

If you follow these simple steps, you’ll have the fastest settings for your individual gun, and you’ll (hopefully) have a better understanding of how it works.
I am going to sticky this for now to get some exposure, then I will add it to Jim's linked sticky.
__________________
MY FEEDBACK
jaggy13 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old August 7th, 2006, 11:58 PM   #2 (permalink)
JH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 2,465
wow that is the best ive seen in a while
JH is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2006, 11:00 AM   #3 (permalink)
Pedobear Supporter
 
M4Maniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Pretty-damn-hot-lanta
Posts: 3,087
nice... I can't wait till Christmas... hopefully my parents will help a bit with funding for a Karni.
__________________
-Matt-


M4Maniac is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old October 17th, 2007, 12:20 PM   #4 (permalink)
I'm out of creativity.
 
martix_agent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lafayette/Kokomo Indiana
Posts: 23,829
oh my.
i'm about to buy an STO...that's quite a bit of info to absorb!
__________________

Feedback
.
Did it work before?
You screwed with it, didn't you?
Got what you deserve.
martix_agent is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2007, 08:00 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
ryanthebigr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 44
thnx man that realy helps what do you think the max rof i can get out of it will be
__________________
ryanthebigr is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old June 2nd, 2010, 08:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4
Well tried to tune my lpr, by the instructions above, got the bolt in it's sweet spot but lowered my velocity, when I get the lpr how he stats above, my karnie can't shoot over 200fps, now if I try to increase velocity, I notice the bolt moves farther back, so i tried for hours chasing my self around with adjusting the reg and lpr, no matter what I did, I ended up in same results, so either I'm not doing something right or, he forgot how to include the reg pressure adjustment, cause I adjusted the lpr to where I barely see the tip of the bolt, then shot some paint, and my velocity was around 130-150 ish range, so if there is something I missed pleas let me know, and if anyone knows how to get my gun to stop that loud barking sound that would be great, sorry for sound like a nooby, but I bought the gun almost a year ago, and just now started back up playing.
Krnlpud is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old June 2nd, 2010, 09:28 PM   #7 (permalink)
Erect member.
 
hurdlebeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,562
this thread is over 3 years old. You probably won't get a response :P

Edit: Damnit Trbo, always showin me up :P
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trbo323 View Post
or we could all go on one hell of a camping trip

Last edited by hurdlebeast : June 2nd, 2010 at 11:13 PM.
hurdlebeast is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old June 2nd, 2010, 09:55 PM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Trbo323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Washington
Posts: 14,350
to be honest i dont think what was posted above is the best way to tune in the LPR, depending on your cocking rod you may see a bit of your bolt nomatter how much pressure is coming through the LPR

heres what i do and it works pretty well, adjust your main reg and velocity adjustment (if you dont have a MQ valve) to get your FPS dieled in, now adjust the LPR so the back block is a little stiff to pull back by hand, not impossible but you should have to put a little effort into pulling it back.

remember that if you adjust the LPR down you will have to fire a shot to let the pressure that is already in the system out and it can recharge with new air at the lower pressure, if you are going up you dont have to fire shots to see how stiff the back block is since you will be adding pressure to what is already there

hope that helps
__________________
The ultimate new player guide!

^^^If you are new, click here^^^

Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that makes a firearm better makes a paintball marker worse. They are 2 very different worlds with nothing except a trigger in common


Trbo323 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2010, 06:51 AM   #9 (permalink)
Elite Member
Image Hosting by Picoodle.com
 
tlmiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: AZ, USA
Posts: 11,922
Also the lighter your cocking mass is, the less pressure you actually need going through the lpr, therefore the less stiff it would have to be in order to function correctly.
__________________
Yes, I have long since accepted that I have issues, with that said, here's:
Pics of my current markers.

Pics of my current barrels.

Pics of my loaders.
tlmiller is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2012, 12:27 AM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Trbo323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Washington
Posts: 14,350
going to finally time the cocker tomorrow....

figured id resurrect this because of that...and because i am bored
__________________
The ultimate new player guide!

^^^If you are new, click here^^^

Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that makes a firearm better makes a paintball marker worse. They are 2 very different worlds with nothing except a trigger in common


Trbo323 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2012, 08:11 AM   #11 (permalink)
Elite Member
Image Hosting by Picoodle.com
 
tlmiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: AZ, USA
Posts: 11,922
I've actually been debating getting rid of mine. The eye doesn't work anymore, can't say for sure it's the Eye not the board, and I don't want to spend the $$ on replacing any parts to keep an out of production marker running (ergo why I also no longer have an Angel).
__________________
Yes, I have long since accepted that I have issues, with that said, here's:
Pics of my current markers.

Pics of my current barrels.

Pics of my loaders.
tlmiller is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2012, 11:38 AM   #12 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Trbo323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Washington
Posts: 14,350
your superstock?
__________________
The ultimate new player guide!

^^^If you are new, click here^^^

Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that makes a firearm better makes a paintball marker worse. They are 2 very different worlds with nothing except a trigger in common


Trbo323 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2012, 06:01 PM   #13 (permalink)
Elite Member
Image Hosting by Picoodle.com
 
tlmiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: AZ, USA
Posts: 11,922
No, that's been gone for like 2 years. My o3m w/ the MQ.
__________________
Yes, I have long since accepted that I have issues, with that said, here's:
Pics of my current markers.

Pics of my current barrels.

Pics of my loaders.
tlmiller is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2012, 04:26 PM   #14 (permalink)
Stripper Supporter
 
snowboarder599's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlmiller View Post
I've actually been debating getting rid of mine. The eye doesn't work anymore, can't say for sure it's the Eye not the board, and I don't want to spend the $$ on replacing any parts to keep an out of production marker running (ergo why I also no longer have an Angel).
I'm in the same boat, although it's the solenoid that went out. I can't really justify spending the $50, or what ever it costs when I have 6 other working markers...
__________________

snowboarder599 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2012, 04:41 PM   #15 (permalink)
Elite Member
Image Hosting by Picoodle.com
 
tlmiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: AZ, USA
Posts: 11,922
Yeah, I'm getting old and lazy. In my youth I would have had no issues spending a few dollars and taking a few hours to fix something that I liked even if it was out of production. But anymore, meh...
__________________
Yes, I have long since accepted that I have issues, with that said, here's:
Pics of my current markers.

Pics of my current barrels.

Pics of my loaders.
tlmiller is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2012, 04:43 PM   #16 (permalink)
Stripper Supporter
 
snowboarder599's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,375
That too, but I don't know how much I would like to use it over any of my other markers...
__________________

snowboarder599 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2012, 04:44 PM   #17 (permalink)
Elite Member
Image Hosting by Picoodle.com
 
tlmiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: AZ, USA
Posts: 11,922
I'll miss it since it was my last working connection to "the old days". But oh well.
__________________
Yes, I have long since accepted that I have issues, with that said, here's:
Pics of my current markers.

Pics of my current barrels.

Pics of my loaders.
tlmiller is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2012, 05:44 PM   #18 (permalink)
Stripper Supporter
 
snowboarder599's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,375
Maybe you should just get an old mech cocker. Less stuff to worry about!
__________________

snowboarder599 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2012, 06:44 PM   #19 (permalink)
Elite Member
Image Hosting by Picoodle.com
 
tlmiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: AZ, USA
Posts: 11,922
I have one, I need springs and an anno job to get it up and running.
__________________
Yes, I have long since accepted that I have issues, with that said, here's:
Pics of my current markers.

Pics of my current barrels.

Pics of my loaders.
tlmiller is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2012, 07:23 PM   #20 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Trbo323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Washington
Posts: 14,350
damn!....cant time the cocker until i get air.....weld shop cant fill my scuba and at least the lady that answers the phone at the fire station didnt think they do....

Trbo wants a shoebox compressor
__________________
The ultimate new player guide!

^^^If you are new, click here^^^

Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that makes a firearm better makes a paintball marker worse. They are 2 very different worlds with nothing except a trigger in common


Trbo323 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums
Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.3.2