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Old June 2nd, 09:36 PM   #1 (permalink)
Dogpatch
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<-- Car audio nub aka "What's a good set up?"

Ok, I've always wanted to have a little boom in my car. I'm really considering getting some gear, but I don't know what to get. I'm assuming the more watts the better, but should I buy something older and cheaper with more watts or something newer with less watts? I'm talking about used gear of course.
I have a crappy head unit. (my wife bought it because I had no cd player in my car) So do I need a new HU, or will an amp and subs still hit even if the deck sucks?
Feel free to laugh and flame, but throw out some advice. I could go research all this stuff, but I was really hoping for good answers from some experienced folks.
Thanks in advance.
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Old June 2nd, 10:36 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I learned tonight to go with the better amp even if it says it has less watts. We ran a pioneer 300watt amp (around $60) and an Eclipse 180watt amp (over $100) through the exact same speaker/sub/head unit setup, both at max gain. The Eclipse blew the pioneer away, it was like a night and day difference. Just for fun we then tried a 500watt JL, which blew away the Eclipse 180watt, then we tried a JL 1000watt amp which had plenty of power to make the whole building shake (That amp is $1,000 by the way).
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Old June 2nd, 10:38 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Old June 2nd, 11:04 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doomsday
I learned tonight to go with the better amp even if it says it has less watts. We ran a pioneer 300watt amp (around $60) and an Eclipse 180watt amp (over $100) through the exact same speaker/sub/head unit setup, both at max gain. The Eclipse blew the pioneer away, it was like a night and day difference. Just for fun we then tried a 500watt JL, which blew away the Eclipse 180watt, then we tried a JL 1000watt amp which had plenty of power to make the whole building shake (That amp is $1,000 by the way).
So quality in the amp is really important.
What about subs? Some guy is some selling some Legacy 12"s on the nation. I looked them up and they go for $20 new. That seems awfully cheap. What are signs of a crappy sub? I'm guessing rattling would be a tell-tale sign.
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Old June 2nd, 11:24 PM   #5 (permalink)
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The difference between a quality sub and a crappy sub from what I have seen is the clarity. A junk sub might sound ok with the volume down low, but when you crank it up it sounds really destorted and sounds like it's vibrating instead of thumping. Don't go by me though, I'm just saying what I've noticed, I don't claim to be a car audio expert.
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Old June 2nd, 11:52 PM   #6 (permalink)
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i have a pair of crappy subs and i have a pair of nice subs... nice subs (12's) will hit hard and fairly quick and precise, and will roll real nice when you get those tones also.. a crappy pair just kind of i guess the best way to describe it is "splashes" around with quick tight bass hits, and rolls okay...
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Old June 2nd, 11:55 PM   #7 (permalink)
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legacy is a really crappy brand, stay away
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Old June 3rd, 10:48 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z71redneck08
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a good HU makes a lot of differance especialy when you are going to be running external amps and subs

Reason #1 they have a higher "pre amp voltage" which means it sends a stronger and cleaner signal through your RCAs to your amp resulting in a cleaner and bolder sound when you turn it up


Reason #2 you have more control over your sound because it will have built in EQ controls meaning you can shape your sound to your liking VS a cheap HU will only have trebble and bass adjustment

on to amps

cheap amps are never a good idea they you will almost always end up with blown speakers and melted amps

Reason #1 a good amp will be more efficent and will stay cooler when running it hard and will consume less power than a cheap no name amp of the same power rating

Reason #2 better amps will have better sound quality because the THD (total harmonic distorsion(sp) ) will be lower which means you will have a much cleaner sound when you crank it up

Reason #3 most mid to high end amps have a "clipping" filter which blocks sharp frequencys that can dammage or destroy subs and speakers


ok i have to go to work right now but this after noon i will talk about subs,boxes,wiring,mid range speakers, and i will even throw in some install tips
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Old June 3rd, 11:48 AM   #9 (permalink)
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^^^ You da man.
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Old June 3rd, 01:36 PM   #10 (permalink)
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One of my friends has a Sony Xplod Amp. 760w

Another friend has a Precision Amp, which is only 280w. The Sony hits harder but sounds like ****. The Precision hits so damn smooth and sounds nice, even with crappy Dual subs.

Give me your price range and I'll give you a recomendation on a setup.
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Old June 3rd, 05:14 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Hmmm... probably around $300 will be my limit. I know that's not much when it comes to car audio stuff. I'll probably buy used off of here or the nation. Also, that will just be for amp and subs, I'll get by with my crappy head unit for now.
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Old June 3rd, 06:22 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Headunit - Alpine
Subs - JL Audio
Amp - Depends.. Don't get a ****ty brand
Speakers - Pioneers are pretty decently priced and sound great! I just recently added 2 small 4 X 6s, so now I have 6 pioneer speakers and it sounds great. Very impressed.

Check your local pawn shop. I'm good friends with someone who works at the one here, so he always hooks me up. I got a Sony Amp, Infinity Sub, and wiring for 100 bucks + tax. You could find some good deals there possibly. Stay away from ebay. Join your local car forum, I bet you'll find some stuff really cheap. Local forum here someone is selling 2 15" MTX subs for 125 only because he has to pay bills.
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Old June 4th, 09:13 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Well, I was talking to Smitty about getting his stuff. I'm pretty sure I can get his amp, but I think he doesn't really want to come off the subs. So, if I got his Rockford 200w amp, would that be a decent enough amp? And is it better to have dual subs or one big one?
How about a set of MTX 6000 10"s with a box for $120?
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Old June 4th, 09:47 AM   #14 (permalink)
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i'd definitely say 10's or 12's.. a low wattage 15" to me just isnt what a 15 is supposed to be like... 15"s are insane though when you power em up..
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Old June 4th, 12:42 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nissantunerdude
fixed

a good HU makes a lot of differance especialy when you are going to be running external amps and subs

Reason #1 they have a higher "pre amp voltage" which means it sends a stronger and cleaner signal through your RCAs to your amp resulting in a cleaner and bolder sound when you turn it up


Reason #2 you have more control over your sound because it will have built in EQ controls meaning you can shape your sound to your liking VS a cheap HU will only have trebble and bass adjustment

on to amps

cheap amps are never a good idea they you will almost always end up with blown speakers and melted amps

Reason #1 a good amp will be more efficent and will stay cooler when running it hard and will consume less power than a cheap no name amp of the same power rating

Reason #2 better amps will have better sound quality because the THD (total harmonic distorsion(sp) ) will be lower which means you will have a much cleaner sound when you crank it up

Reason #3 most mid to high end amps have a "clipping" filter which blocks sharp frequencys that can dammage or destroy subs and speakers


ok i have to go to work right now but this after noon i will talk about subs,boxes,wiring,mid range speakers, and i will even throw in some install tips
continuing on


on to sub woofers

the most common subwoofer sizes are 8",10",12", and 15" and each of them have their own pros and cons which i am not going to go into each one because that would take forever to explain lol

what you are going to want to look for are some 10s or 12s those are good sizes boxes are readily available just about anywere and depending on what you get you can power them witha realitively (sp) small amp

good subwoofers can actualy consume less power than cheap ones cheap subwoofer almost always have packaging thats like omgwtfbbq 1400watts !!!11 which is bull **** if you put a constant 1400watts to a sub like that you will prolly end up with a fire in your trunk

good subs will have much better sound quaility or SQ and it will produce quicker, tighter bass notes

now a few words about boxes

the most common/poular box designs are sealed, ported, and bandpass but these are just the tip of whats out there for box designs

sealed boxes offer tight punchy bass that will take up less space than other designs and will flow better when going from different music styles such as bass heavy songs such as rap,techno, bass tracks, to less bass intensive music like rock and pop

ported boxes will give you a bit louder sound but require much more space than a sealed box it will provide more of a boomy sound than a tight punchy sound

bandpass boxes are big and heavy offer kinda the best of both of the previous boxs to a certain extent its very hard to tell when your sub starts to distort and can lead to blown subs unless you are very familiar with how you subs are supposed to sound


on to mid range speakers

there are several different types but the most common are 2 and 3 way speakers which each one has has more tweeters 2way speakers have the woffer and 1 tweeter 3way speakers have the woofer and 2 tweeters

2 way speakers are good and are usualy pretty resonably priced

3 way speakers will give you more high end sound and usualy cost a little more



and heres a few things about wiring

when wiring you amp you want to use the right size wire for you amp bigger si usualy better but there is overkill when it comes to these things

power wire needs to be the right size because if you use wiringthat is too small your amp will work to hard to pull the power that it needs and will not work as efficently as it should and will create more heat and can possibly burn up the amp

ground wire is also very important it plays a big part in SQ and in amp efficentness ground wire will usualy be around the same size as your power wire

and your ACC/remote turn on wire this can be smaller normaly i use 14g wire for any amp i install

now heres a few things to know when installing car audio

wiring harness adapters are your friend and are well worth the 6-7 bux because you dont want to start cuting factory wiring

and the same goes for speakers get the adapters it will make things much easier

sometimes you will have to get a dash kit for your HU to fit right theres no way around it unless you are a bad ass fabricator so get the kit and your life will be much easier

when running wire through holes put a rubber gromet in the hole this will keep the metal from cutting the wire and creating problems later on down the road

secure loose wire with zip ties when it cant be tucked under door sils and trim plates

when making connections use butt connectors the type that crimp on these will give you a good tight and clean connection

when grounding your amp try and get it as close as you can to your amp and use a utility knife and cut a small square carpet out and take a file or putty knife and scrape the paint off the metal giving you a nice clean surface and attach a ring terminal to your wire the secure it to the spot that was preped with a self tapping screw be carful not to dammage anything under where you put your screw

ok on to what i recommend

HU- Pioneer DEH-P3800M
mid range speakers- well i cant give you specific cause i dont know what they are going in but i would check out some pioneer speakers
subs- i would try to get those mtx 6000s
amp-sony XM2002GTR wired down to 2ohms it would be perfect for those subs


that i think pretty much covers it if you have any more questions feel free to ask
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Old June 4th, 02:32 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogpatch
Well, I was talking to Smitty about getting his stuff. I'm pretty sure I can get his amp, but I think he doesn't really want to come off the subs. So, if I got his Rockford 200w amp, would that be a decent enough amp? And is it better to have dual subs or one big one?
How about a set of MTX 6000 10"s with a box for $120?
I meant Dual, the brand.

I prefer to have 2 different subs on seperate channels. IMO just sounds better. I can only fit one 12 in my trunk though and it's all I could afford.
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Old June 4th, 03:30 PM   #17 (permalink)