HuNtS

the only problem with your "quoting" is that when pat says a small block tt'd chevy can make 1600 horsepower it WILL put that to the ground... unfortunately for you, you apparently opt to stay away from muscle car magazines where in pretty much every issue they have a car on the front page that has well over 1000 horsepower with a DOMESTIC engine... and it's still cheap as dirt...

sure... imports can be fast.. but who says i'm gonna go out and drop 7+grand into JUST A TURBO KIT (such as the gt42r).... for 7 grand on a muscle car you could supercharge/turbo, and swap out most of the internals...



also, to quote you

obviously power is nothing to you.... you drive an import

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Skurge

dyno queens/dyno slips mean nothing to me, track times do

and who said 7 grand, you could do a whole car for 7K, cost of car and all, i'm talking 3-4K in upgrades on a STOCK 1.6L

compare apples to apples, whats a powerfull domestic 4 cly under 2liters? that you can get in an economy car?


the trend lately is less and less people are buying domestics because of the quality(see tolerances in build) and reliability of them are crap compared to *** motors/cars......its only a matter of time before GM is crying again and trying to give away their cars with 10K in rebates

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HuNtS

american PERFORMANCE cars are not made with 4 cylinders... american performance cars are made with engines that you can get performance out of! namely, a v8!
americans generally dont make cars under 2 liters, because american vehicles are known for torque! of which tiny import engines seem to lack... such as a 1994 chevy cavalier 2.2lcompared to a 1994 acura integra ls 1.7l the acura has somewhere int he neighborhood of 145 horsepower whereas the cavalier has a lowly 110-120 yet the cavlier makes 140 tq and the integra? 125... more torque means better launch capabilities due to the fact that you have that strong low-rpm power (but who are we kidding.. we're talking about FWD cars...) which would mean a better 1/4 time as long as you also have the horsepower to back that torque up....

why is it hard for a domestic to beat an import when starting on a roll? because starting on a roll say 20-30 mph is the only way an import can win... american engines are NOT built for high RPM applications, which means they make all their power right off idle or very low int he rpm range... Also, most imports DO NOT have any kind of launch capabilities due to being FWD.. yes there are some AWD vehicles, but they still have their disadvantages... Domestics roll imports from a stand still, and that's how most races are, and should be... rear wheel drive is a godsend... try it sometime...




also.. your thinking is flawed with the "the trend lately is less and less people are buying domestics because of the quality(see tolerances in build) and reliability of them are crap compared to *** motors/cars......its only a matter of time before GM is crying again and trying to give away their cars with 10K in rebates" statement....

first off, the trend of people switching from domestic to import recently is HIGHLY because of GAS PRICES! NOT RELIABILITY! tell me domestics dont have quality... have you ever seen a dodge chevy or ford go WAY past 2-300k miles? have you EVER owned a vehicle with over 250k miles? probably not! i know of literally dozens and dozens of domestics WELL over 200k... and they still run strong, and everything stll feels solid... i've worked at a car wash and have driven imports with well over 200k miles on them... every single one feels as if it's ready to break in half... the plastic cracks and creaks, and the interior is worn like crap....

domestic reliability is crap compared to a *** car? ever heard of a company called AMC? ever read or heard anything about the AMC 150 and AMC 242? probably not! they're better known as a JEEP 2.5l and 4.0l! domestic designed and built, since the early 80's, and they STILL USE THEM TODAY! i promise you for every model year there's at least a couple hundred thousand if not more jeeps running around with WELL over 200k miles without major maintenance needed... dont go into reliability with me, because as you'll see in my sig, i'm running a jeep (made by CHRYSLER) with 255,900 miles and counting.... and it wasnt rebuilt until it was at about 231k.... know what i've needed to replace on the engine itself? a water pump.... yes.. that's it... i'd be willing to bet the amount of domestics over 200k miles doubles that of imports over 200k... so hows that for *** reliability?....

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Skurge

lol my thinking is not flawed......i sold imports(toyota) for over 2.5 years, and 99% of the ppl buying toyotas that HAD domestic cars were doing it because of the reliabality, not because of gas prices, that was my job when selling a car, to find out their motivation.......and most of the time it was because they had their chevy/dodge/GM product in the shop more than they drove it


have i owned RWD cars....YES 1981 RX-7

have i owned cars over 250K.....YES 1989 acrura integra, and i beat the crap out of it everyday, still ran like a champ, no knocks or anything

have i driven a TON of cars with 200K+...YES and all the imports would run a ton better than the domestics


yes there are cases where ppl get 200K + out of the domestics, but most of the time they dont


lets see some examples

toyota tacoma(4cyl), used to tow, pull boats, trailers all its life 579K when it finally spun a bearing, and ya know what he replaced the WHOLE TIME he owned it? clutch about every 150K and thats it, besides regular maintence

lets see another

93 toyota camry(V6) 350K, still running strong, all thats been replaced is water pump and a couple clutches


i can go on all day with ones just like this, I had a customer just about every day with almost the same situation, hell i could even go to the dealership and take a pic of the odo and vid of the car running, YOU CANT HEAR IT CAUSE ITS STILL RUNS LIKE NEW


but yea, your right ROFL

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HuNtS

yeah... my cherokee runs like crap... it was a farm truck, it tows, and i beat the hell out of it, and it still runs like new... but domestics apparently cant do that....

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Rick78

omg dude u made me rofl so hard with that one

hunt, dont even bother with this guy, i have a vid im gonna post when i can find it, twin turboed ls1 chevelle, he floors it and goes from 20-140mph like instantly

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Skurge

and hunts, just because you have a truck that runs good and has a lot of mileage, doesn't mean that everyone does

i never said that all of them break, you do get a a few that will run forever, but the ratio of imports running at higher mileage to domestices is a big difference, the imports are always on top

ever read consumer reports?



and its nice to know your jeep has been rebuilt, that just tells me if someone didn't sink their money into it, it would be sitting in a junkyard somewhere, so realibility? yea your car died at 231 as far as i'm concerned, all the cars i was talking about had all original parts, internals and all

and you said it yourself

every car i've had i've taken to redline more than once daily, no problems whatsoever

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HuNtS

mine was rebuilt not because it needed it, it was rebuilt because it was getting that age.. no, it dod not die at 231.. considering the fact that i dont think new piston rings and re hatching the the sleeves is death... and i take mine past redline more than once daily also... your point? i mean it's american.. it shouldnt be able to handle that


also, for your viewing pleasure...

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showt...hlight=mileage

that's just cherokees, which is a fraction of the percentage of american vehicles running much higher than imports


ALSO: THIS JUST IN!!! how do you know your brand spanking new imports such as a wrx sti or an evo8 are reliable? you dont! they havent been around long enough! apparently it must've slipped your mind that your *** cars become as reliable as any other car out there once you slap performance parts and a turbo on it... that's called added stress to you engine!!!

think of it this way... if you had to ****, and you can hold it just fine while your walking to the bathroom (your engine running normally every day) every once and a while you'll shart (you taking your engine to redline) but then all of a sudden someone tackles you and squeezes your abdomen (you putting a turbo on a grocery getter) you're going to take a ****! (just like your car!)

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Skurge

lol you assume too much


there are STI's with 200K on them already......its a solid motor


if you had to rip apart the motor cause "it was old" obviously it wasn't running right for some reason, hence you fixed it, your still not understanding that the cars i'm talking about have not had the motor open for anything at all, nothing


and yes it shouldn't be able to handle redline every day, because the quality isn't there to handle redline every day, unlike *** cars


thanks for stating a fact i've been trying to get you to understand


and your jeep thread is a good point:

"mine has 175,000 on a motor with 90,000 miles "
ok so his isn't original motor

"166k with 2 rebuilt engines.

The cylinders are worn all to hell"
oh wait this guys on #3...yea reliable

"I inherited a '90 XJ but it only lasted to 110k"
yup another




and of the other posts, there was only a few that had a lot of miles, on an engine most of them didn't say was original....just stated how many mils on truck


and while your on that site, take a look at the huge list of TSB's for those trucks, i've never seen that many(other than ford focus lol), some of them for som pretty bad stuff hah

so yea that post helped a lot


btw the ford focus holds the record for most recalls/TSB's of any car, ever

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crustybug

wow, you know, last time i went to the junkyard around here, i saw a measly 7 jeep vehicles at the top of the hill, and the entire walk there was through the remnants of fart can boasting hondas. you know, im not saying i hate imports, i love em, BMW's, Jags, Triumphs, MG's, V-Dubs, but not *** crap, and that new chinese crap. They sit on the top of my most useless **** pile. Quality? my ass, they use the cheapest parts and cheapest materials to throw them pieces of plastic trash together. Ive seen go-carts that have more solidity than a japanese car. Domestic and *** cars have nothing in common, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. they do not compare, because they dont sit in the same category. Domestic is sheer power, torque, and performance, with little consideration on economy. *** is econobox, no torque nor power compared to domestics, get you to the grocery store and back car and only use a minute amount of fuel doing so. Now, dont go telling me "what about a supra, or an sti?" I could buy a domestic for the same price that would eat it for dinner, and want seconds afterwards. People that buy *** cars mostly want them for economy. Grandma doesnt want to drive an sti or supra to the grocery store.

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CoWcH

This thread is dumb, everyone who has voiced an opinion is too biased to spit out anything intelligent about the subject of imports vs domestics.

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Skurge

please tell me what domestic car you can buy for 34K that will do 0-60 in 4.7 and right at 13 seconds in the quarter mile, while having anough room for 5 people easily, 4 doors, and a large trunk?
oh wait, you can drive it in the winter too!

not even talking about the capability offroad, as really no domestic can compare with that


and put aside the fact that any domestic car that would be close, has twice the motor


i dont think you can talk about value in a sports car on that one, I drive mine year round, and in buffalo we get a ton of snow


as far as bias, I used to like domestics, untill i sold toyota's, it dont take long to figure it out when you drive old trade ins all day and see the quality at 150K+ in the *** cars vs. te domestic ones

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CoWcH

Wow, stop trying to prove that one is better than the other.

All cars can have their high points highlited and state that nothing can match it in that area, AND IT IS TRUE. There is a reason for this, if a car couldnt be the best at something(even if its the best at being all-around good), then it would not sell.

Something similar to your car in domestic form, a Chrysler 300C. It comes with an extra thousand pounds, and costs 1,300 more. But it also delivers 40 more hp, 90 more tq, bigger, awd just like yours, and it does this in luxury, which is what your car lacks, which is why it is cheap!

Every car in the end will have its reason to be bought, why can't people realize that domestics=imports. If there was a clear winner, one of them would not be in business.

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CoWcH

And don't pull the "American companies are going bankrupt", because the whole import reliability fad is going away if you haven't noticed. All cars these days are made everywhere, imports in america, domestics in other countries.

Down to the real question, WHY DOES ANYONE CARE WHICH IS BETTER?

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DaBluedevil

The way I see it.

Old domestics( Muscle ) is nasty in a line.
New imports are street fast.
New domestic trucks are huge.
Euros are comfy as hell.

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Rick78

i know its tough man

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