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Sergeant Pepper · September 9th, 12:11 PM

I've recenlty been looking at upgrading my VS2 to something a little better, and I have focused my search on DYE and Proto. However, I can't quite get it all straight. I looked at Proto's website and noticed that I can no longer find a PM8 or PM9, but only the PMR. My question for the smart people here are... what are the differences? Why is there no PM9? I heard that the only difference between a PM8 and a PM7 was the addition of a DM UL frame. Why onl a PMR now? What quality is a Proto SLG? A general discussion of the differences between marker types DYE and Proto would be welcome. Thanks.

***martix_agent*** · September 9th, 01:22 PM

the SLG is a sear tripping marker that is on par with a spyder VS2

the PMR is a mid-level marker

The Proto matrix and Dye matrix series were so equal to each other, that they dropped the proto matrix line in 2009 and only offered the dye matrix.

If you want information about what each has, check out this chart.(whihc has grown to be quite beastly since i last looked at in in 2007..)

**Trbo323** · September 9th, 02:53 PM

PMR is an unbalanced spool valve, all the numbered matrices are balanced spool valves (smoother and more efficient) proto matrices always seemed to be a little lower quality than their dye counterparts but still good markers none the less. what are you looking for in this next marker?

Sergeant Pepper · September 9th, 03:23 PM

I like my VS2, but it is an entry level marker. I do have to tinker with it on occasion for various reasons. I have no delusions that I will one day need a "pro" marker, but I intende to get a freak barrel system or equivalent to improve accuracy now that I am playing quite a bit more. I see no reason to upgrade the VS2 with such hardware. To me, it's a little like making your Pinto into a hot rod. Bottom line is that I'm looking for a good quality efficient mid grade marker that would be worth making minor upgrades to. Thanks.

**Trbo323** · September 9th, 03:46 PM

probably your two best bets are the PMR or the Mini then, pmr is a unbalanced spool, mini is a hybrid poppet, both you can plunk a few upgrades into to keep you happy. performance wise you cant do much to the matrices, after fixing that god awful flow plug ($20 fix) that doesnt make the marker shoot any differently they are pretty much as good as they will get. bolts dont do much and pretty much every performance mod out there for them either does nothing or gives you so little performance they are not worth the money

the other, and more important issue is you can find parts for the mini and pmr since they are still produced, if you get a DM9 now, when the DM11 comes out they will stop making any parts specific to the 9 so you are up a creek if you break something specific to the marker, luckely most the parts on the markers will work on multiple years but its still a concern i have with my 6.

preformance wise the pmr and mini are very close, im looking into getting a mini myself for something a little different (i tend to stick to spool valve markers)

Sergeant Pepper · September 9th, 06:08 PM

Compared to the VS2, I'm assuming that a PMR is a better marker, although it does not have a n LPR so I also assume it isn't as efficient. How long has the PMR been in production. Again, I assume even they are not created equal. Thank again.

**Trbo323** · September 9th, 06:33 PM

the lack of LPR makes the pmr a unbalanced spool, the matrices all have a LPR and are therefore balanced spools. even an unbalanced spool is much better than a stacked tube blowback they work completely differently, if you want to see how go to ZDS paintball and look for the marker animations (google search "marker animations" it should be the first hit) look for the PMR, the DM6+ and the spyder clone animations and you will see the difference. PMR i believe has been in production since around 2004 or so but im not sure for certain

Sergeant Pepper · September 11th, 04:36 PM

I know this is the wrong thread, but in the interest of continuation, what about the Shocker NXT? Also a spool valve? Quality? Thanks.

**Trbo323** · September 11th, 06:30 PM

hey your the one who made the thread, you can ask whatever you want. shockers are not all that great. horribly overpriced and they get pretty bad efficiency. they dont really excel in any one area, they are just kinda mediocre but because SP sponsors so many teams you see them everywhere. recently SP has been making some pretty good mid grade stuff but never been a huge leader in the high end area. sure the Luxe is nice but at the end of the day really its just a talking shocker

tlmiller · September 11th, 06:35 PM

They're not bad, but while an lpr-less balanced spool valve (don't ask me how, I don't totally understand why), they truly shoot more like an unbalanced spool. They have fairly awful efficiency (although not as bad as the SFT), and while smooth, aren't as smooth as a DM, numbered PM, or Quest. However they're decent markers if the price is right. Unfortunately, generally they sell more than a PM7 or Quest, and I would definitely say they're inferior to both of those markers by a rather significant margin.

**Trbo323** · September 11th, 06:39 PM

considering you can get a later model dm or pm for much less the value is just not there. id turn someone down if they wanted to trade me a new shocker for my 6, ill keep the higher performance marker thank you very much

tlmiller · September 11th, 06:41 PM

I'd even turn down an offer of a straight trade for my DM5.

Sergeant Pepper · September 11th, 08:11 PM

I started leaning thy direction because of the comments about the pm line being no longer in production and the DMs lack of supportability through the various iterations. A newer DM is probably more than what I want to spend, but with the PM no longer made... Looking at the comparrisoms. The PMR looked inferior to both of those lines, so I decided to look elsewhere... No?

**Trbo323** · September 11th, 08:23 PM

the pmr is a good marker, nobody is saying its not, its just the numbed matrices are better. for your situation it would work pretty good, going from a STBB to a unbalanced spool is a good step (and honestly one of the best unbalanced spools out there) you may also want to look into the Invert Mini. its around the same price but is a poppet style marker (pressure controlled poppet, aka hybrid poppet) but like the PMR is still in production so parts will be easier to find. just on the mini make sure you get a gen 2 mini, gen 1 minis had issues

Sergeant Pepper · September 11th, 10:53 PM

Seems like what I'm hearing is for the price go PMR. If I have that right, it sounds like good advice to me. Minis just too small for me.

***Db0ne*** · September 11th, 11:19 PM

are you 100% going for used?
You could find pm8's for lower than the new pmr's right now.

Sergeant Pepper · September 11th, 11:26 PM

Its the supportability issue. Whichever one I decide, I will probably keep it for some time. Plus either one I will buy used and I can get an 09 pmr used for about 300 I would guess.

Sergeant Pepper · September 12th, 08:46 PM

Shot a PM7 today and loved it. Any thoughts on supportability? Should I just plan on buying spare parts ahead if time?

tlmiller · September 12th, 08:55 PM

But a medium parts kit, will be set for several years. Or a large parts kit, the marker will wear out before you use up all the parts from that.

And I would highly recommend the PM7, it's an EXCELLENT marker. Very well made, shoots absolutely dreamy. I love mine if not for the fact that the Oil Slick finish is far too delicate to use often.

Affishu · September 17th, 10:26 PM

A new chart need to be made with the Dye NT:

YouTube - Dye NT introduction

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