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Memorylapse · February 4th, 07:22 PM

I want to upgrade from a tippmann, I play almost entirely woodsball, and I want an electronic gun. Accuracy and air efficiency are more important to me than speed. I like the Proto Matrix Rail, except that I hear it uses up air very quickly. I want to be able to get at least 1200 shots without refilling (I have yet to buy a tank and any recomendations on that would be nice too.) The epiphany is also catching my eye. which should I get and why? what are the good and bad parts of either one compaired to eachother? Is there something else in that price range that would be even better?

***DarkTamer*** · February 4th, 07:26 PM

Efficiency between the two is pretty comparable, although the Epiphany should be a bit better. With a 68/4500, 1200 shots from the Rail shouldn't be a problem. I'd suggest the Rail.

Memorylapse · February 4th, 09:25 PM

really? on pbreview.com I heard a couple people who claimed they could only get a hopper and a few pods before refilling with a 68/4500 tank.

***DarkTamer*** · February 4th, 09:33 PM

Then they've messed up the tuning. Pbreview is not a particularly accurate site, the reviews are written by anyone who is willing to take the 1min to sign up.

TheAznInvazn · February 4th, 09:47 PM

I know with my EOS (Epiphany with BOB body) and a 48/45 tank, I get a hopper and 5 pods with some air to spare (maybe 1-3 more pods or so).

***Dark.angel*** · February 4th, 10:26 PM

The Proto Rail is quailty.

**the_real_kaz** · February 4th, 10:28 PM

You'd be better off with a DP fusion than those 2. They get better efficency and are built tuffer. Well at least tuffer than the PMR's cheap plastic parts.

TheAznInvazn · February 4th, 10:41 PM

Amen to the above.

I really don't see why any paintball gun would have a plastic frame unless they really wanted to cut cost...

Anyways, just did some guess-timation, you might be able to get 1000 shots with the EOS with the right dwell and at 220 psi. Thats about what I was getting, give or take some.

Don't know about the Fusion, but for the price, I know that the Epiphany isn't a bad choice at all

Just did some research too, the DP Fusion F8 is $450, while both the PMR and the Epiphany are around $250. Unless you're thinking of an older model, the F8 might be out of his price range.

Memorylapse · February 5th, 09:46 PM

hmmmmm well actually now I'm looking at the autococker trilogy tactical SF. It may not be as nice a gun, but it looks like less maintenance, durable, accurate, fast enough to let me walk but not so fast I'll waste tons of paint. I'd probably add a few things to it though, but I'm having trouble finding upgrades for it online. If anyone knows where I can find some please tell me. what do you think?

**the_real_kaz** · February 5th, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memorylapse

hmmmmm well actually now I'm looking at the autococker trilogy tactical SF. It may not be as nice a gun, but it looks like less maintenance, durable, accurate, fast enough to let me walk but not so fast I'll waste tons of paint. I'd probably add a few things to it though, but I'm having trouble finding upgrades for it online. If anyone knows where I can find some please tell me. what do you think?

lol what lol you really said that.. lol lol lol.

OK.... autocockers are the most complicated, hardest to work on, and easly broken markers I know of. The neumatics that run them are VERY complicated and usually need to be sent in to be worked on. Most people have a shop set the marker up than NEVER touch it for fear of breaking it. If you never touch them, yes they work fine. But they are no where near as reliable as fusion. Also with the mech trigger you will not be able to walk it. I can get a tippmann faster than a cheap autococker (no joke).

Now that I've cleared that up, I'll clear something else up:
The orginal fusion sells for $250. Same price as the PMR or ion... I mean ephiany (same think).

F8 and the orginal have a couple differences. Also you can find F8's for about $400.

TheAznInvazn · February 5th, 10:06 PM

oic, that makes more sence. I was wondering if you were really reccomending a $400 gun for a seemingly lower budget >.<

Memorylapse · February 5th, 10:29 PM

i've seen videos of people walking this autococker pretty quickly, and I was hoping they were at least somewhat durable. grrrrrr, my search continues. I'll look up the fusion. damn, autocockers look so cool when they shoot, but i'm not spendin all this money for looks.

**the_real_kaz** · February 5th, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memorylapse

i've seen videos of people walking this autococker pretty quickly, and I was hoping they were at least somewhat durable. grrrrrr, my search continues. I'll look up the fusion. damn, autocockers look so cool when they shoot, but i'm not spendin all this money for looks.

The cockers you saw where probbly e-blades, and more than likly tuned by someone who knows what they are doing.

Autocockers are dieing off (or are pretty much dead) they are just to big, non-air efficent, and complicated for today's market. Notice that WGP is coming out with markers that arn't cocker. even their new "cocker" isn't a true cocker but an extremly changed one that's not a lot like the orginal cockers.

Memorylapse · February 5th, 10:43 PM

I dont think I can put my q-loader on the fusion. well I want a gun that stresses accuracy and air efficiency, something I can put the q-loader on, speed just needs to be fast enough for me to be able to walk it easily. Weight isnt a huge issue and it doesnt need to be the smallest thing ever either since I'm moving from a Tippmann and only playing woodsball. I would love to hear some suggestions, preferably something around $250, but dont let that limit you. I'll worry about price. You dont have to be limited to stock guns either, if there's a gun with mods that you think would solve my dilema then please tell me. thanks for any help

**the_real_kaz** · February 5th, 11:09 PM

I think you can put a Q-loader on anything, dosn't it just fit on with clamps?

An automag is your best bet. (though they are out of bussniess now) they made tight markers, durable and pretty fast. There markers where made for q-loaders and their side hopper thing.

On this page is a pic of what i'm talking about:
Mag Pics

Memorylapse · February 6th, 08:30 PM

i cant find anything on automags, got any other suggestions?

***DarkTamer*** · February 6th, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_real_kaz

The cockers you saw where probbly e-blades, and more than likly tuned by someone who knows what they are doing.

Autocockers are dieing off (or are pretty much dead) they are just to big, non-air efficent, and complicated for today's market. Notice that WGP is coming out with markers that arn't cocker. even their new "cocker" isn't a true cocker but an extremly changed one that's not a lot like the orginal cockers.

Come again? Since when? The Autococker SR is still an autococker in every way, it's just an extremely odd one.

TheAznInvazn · February 6th, 09:37 PM

I was thinking the same thing!

There is a guy at my field with an autococker, and he gets a good number of shots off of a 68/45 tank. Nothing horribly low.

**kenny_1491** · February 6th, 09:46 PM

Autocockers are nice, if you like the tuning and timing of them. really for the price you can't beat the epiphany, and it is pretty darn efficient too. If you have the extra money I'd say get the F8. as for the PMR I have shot both the Epiphany and the PMR and they shoot EXACTLY THE SAME, same kick etc, but I believe the epiphany is more air efficient.