sjScott

The problem is I don't go to paintball fields. I play with my buddies out in the woods. I don't want to drive 30 miles every week to refill tanks either. That's why I want to get a large scuba tank for my garage to refill my own tanks in my garage, and limit the 30 mile trip to once a month. Not to mention filling up a 88 CUBIC FOOT tank is $5 more then filling up a small 62 CUBIC INCH tank. That's an extremely rediculous price difference. What is the problem with having a 48/3000 or 62/3000 tank guys? It's in my garage. I can top off my tanks every time I play, with the air I only payed literally a nickel for. I will never run out while playing because I will always be able to top off my tanks, rather then playing one day and having a quarter of a tank left and being like oh **** I have to go drive 30 miles to fill up this ONE tank.

Basically it's between CO2, which I already have, and a scuba air tank, which is 3,000psi. Air is cheaper to purchase, air is better for my guns, and air is safer for all the people using my equipment. Should I or should I not switch from CO2 to 3,000psi air? If not, why? Everyone and I mean everyone always says CO2 is bad and you should definately switch to air. I did all the math and it's cheaper but a long shot, and if it's that much better for your guns then it's a no brainer to switch. So, I don't know why you guys are saying not to switch to 3,000psi air when I am using CO2 at the moment now and burning off o-rings left and right. Not to mention when the tank gets down to about 3oz or 4oz it is very unconsistant and usually that gas is wasted freezing the tank for the next refill.

Bottom line: 48/3000 or 62/3000 air tank vs 20oz CO2 tanks. If I should switch to air, which brand of tanks should I consider? Guerrilla Air? Ninja? Empire? If I should stick with CO2, please, explain to me why when I hear everyone, including all of you, advising people to switch to air.

tlmiller

IMO, if I already had co2, there's no way I'd waste my money on a steelie 3K tank. They're simply not worth it to me. If you want to, go ahead, but I never would. I'd rather stick to co2 that I already had over wasting my money on a tank that's HEAVIER than a 4.5k tank, HEAVIER than a co2 tank, and holds nowhere near as much air as the 4.5k tank, even if I don't always get a full fill. Just for me, not worth the money. YMMV.

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Pro_paintball

Honestly man i see your arguement and agree with you completly there is no point in using co2 when a 3000 psi will save you money, gas and time

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Nothing compares to playing pump or with a older marker

sjScott

Why are you saying it's a waste of money? I rent stuff out man, I refill 4-8 tanks per week, which costs me about $1.70 per fill (after hazmat fees at the local shop). That's 16-32 fills per month, which costs $27-$54 for the actual gas. Since the air is roughly $0.40 per fill, that's a quarter of the cost, which is $6-$13.

Even though a 20oz tank can shoot over 1,000 rounds on average, I'm renting them out and dealing with people that haven't played much before and shoot rounds of like crazy. Even if they have no rounds in their hopper. Since there is no gauge on my CO2 tanks, I have to refill them every time I go out anyway to avoid the chance of having somebody running out of gas. I've taken people up before with roughly a half tank and multiple people ran out of gas before they ran out of balls. I can't be doing that if they are paying customers, so I top my tanks off every time. Which is $1.70 vs $0.40. After a few months of using air I will break even on all the extra equipment I had to purchase.

Stop thinking about a CO2 tank being $20.00 to purchase and an air tank being $50.00 to purchase. I'm asking you hands down, air vs CO2. You get to use either one you want for free, you're going to pick air. Correct?

The main thing I'm asking is what brand of tanks are best for my money? I found a bundle with Ninja 48/3000 tanks included with guns I already want to purchase for rentals. Although I'm skeptical about a 48cubic inch tank being able to fire enough shots compared to Guerrilla Air's 62 cubic inch tank for $45.00.

tlmiller

If it's free, I'll take a co2 tank over a steelie. Yes, I really DISLIKE steelie tanks. To me, they're useless. I'd rather pay for a co2 tank than get a steelie for free, that's how useless I think they are.

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martix_agent

I agree with this 100%

Also realize that you'll have to bring many, many more SCUBA tanks to get the same amount of shots as your 50 bl Co2 tank.

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Feedback

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sjScott

I'm sorry, but what the hell is a steelie tank? Is that slang for it being made of steel?
The HPA tanks I'm looking at are aluminum and the CO2 tanks I'm using now are aluminum.

sjScott

Yes but a 50LB CO2 tank costs $45.00 to refill plus any taxes or hazmat fees as a 88 cubic foot scuba tank costs $9.00 plus tax to refill.

88x5=440 cubic feet

I don't know the conversion from cubic feet to ounces, but 50LB of CO2 will not out shoot 440 cubic FEET.

tlmiller

Steelie is a slang term for any hpa tank that's made entirely of metal, because when they FIRST started making them, they were made of steel. Almost none of them still are, but the name stuck.

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sjScott

So what exactly is wrong with them?

They are made of the same material of a CO2 tank and are roughly the same size. The only difference is they shoot less shots per fill.

What is your other reason of not liking them other then poor efficieny and maybe the size or weight of them

tlmiller

Size and weight. CF tanks are smaller, lighter, and hold more shots. Therefore I hate steelies. I like being able to fill once and play the whole day. With steelies, I'd have to fill every other game, and a 48 ci tank would still weigh more than the 68 ci tank I use now.

Granted, I'd only get 68/3000 with the scubas, but that's still enough for more games than a 48/3000 is going to get by ~ 1/2 (so 3 instead of 2). But the fact remains, it's getting that extra game while still being shorter and lighter.

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sjScott

Would a 48/3000 or a 62/3000 weigh more then a 20oz?

I like the size of a 20oz and it's not necessarily heavy. I plan on getting a remote line soon anyways.

Trbo323

you also have to take into consideration that you will not be getting full fills on the HPA tanks, once you start bleeding pressure off of the large tank you will have to be filling the paintball tank(s) more frequently. it doesnt work like CO2 on a weight scale where you just need enough pressure in the co2 tank to push liquid into your paintball tanks. the best way to do a HPA system at home is a cascade system requiring 2,3,or 4 large tanks. im with miller, you have the co2 stuff already, why bother trading out for smaller heavier tanks that need to be hydroed on top of everything else? yes, air is better but its only better if you can get more out of it than you can CO2 (im not talking about shots) co2 will have more shots per volume and if we are looking at your situation in specific, lighter tanks that dont need to be hydrod as well

considering the start up cost, which personally i believe to get what you are out of the co2 to be higher than you really think it will be, i really dont see this saving you money especially considering you will be filling tanks that will not last as long so your friends and you are going to have to fill more frequently

i ran a fleet of rentals for a summer camp with 48/3k tanks, 15 markers and 6 scuba tanks the last of which was a 3300psi tank all in a cascade system. from dry tanks i would get maybe all 15 tanks to have 3000 psi in them, after that (so, after the first group of kids came through) the psi would start dropping off, they went through around 10 cases of paint total before we needed the scuba tanks filled. one of the other issues is once you start filling below about 2000psi, you have a very small window for the tanks to use because once the tanks go under 1000psi they really cant power the markers anymore. so that is one more thing with the HPA tanks, unlike co2 where you are able to use the full weight volume in the tank, HPA only functions down to roughly 800psi on the markers you will be using it on

yes same material, but not the same quantity, co2 self regulates to around 800psi so it does not need to hold the pressures than a HPA tank does. most co2 tanks have a 1.5k burst disk and the tank itself will probably blow around 2kpsi. HPA on the other hand, 3k operating pressure on these aluminums, 4.5k burst disk, around 6k before the tank blows. much more aluminum.

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Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that makes a firearm better makes a paintball marker worse. They are 2 very different worlds with nothing except a trigger in common

sjScott

Now we're getting some where Turbo, here is some actual feedback coming from you AND experience.

Are you telling me as you drain the scuba tank the pressure inside of the scuba tank lowers and at some point, lowers so low that you cannot use it anymore, BEFORE you used the full capacity of the tank? As if the air "goes bad"?

This is some good constructive information.

Trbo323

pretty much, basically when you attach a HPA tank to a scuba all you are doing is equalizing the pressure between the two. lets say you have 2 tanks that are the same size, one has 1000 psi in it, the other has 0. you connect them and "fill" the empty one but now both tanks have 500psi in them. you can not get the 0 tank all the way to 1000. now with a scuba and a paintball tank the scuba has so much volume that when you fill the paintball tank you can get it very close to 3k and from my experience most dive shops actually fill just over 3k on the scubas so you can actually get 3k into a paintball tank.

but yes you are right, the scuba will be rendered useless when it hits 1000psi for sure and really you are getting such small fills at 1.5k, you really will not be shooting over about a hopper full of paint. there is no set "empty" on a scuba tank as you can put a few psi into a paintball tank but the more you fill the paintball tanks, the less and less you will be filling each tank.

at home i have 1 scuba tank for personal use and 2 68/4500psi tanks, when i go to the field i have the 4500 tanks topped off before i leave, with just the 2 4.5 tanks i can get through typically a case and a half of paint alone in the worst case (if i am just playing and not tinkering, also, i shoot high end markers, fairly efficient) then add the scuba onto that, i go to the back woods with just 1 full 68/45 and it typically will last me all day if not very close, if i go with it empty and bring the scuba, i have to fill once at the start and maybe one more time depending on how much i am shooting. the first fill will be right at 3k usually, the second is usually 2800 or so PSI but again, these are 68ci tanks, a little larger than the 48ci tanks. but at least on my tanks i have found if you subtract about 200 psi from the last fill, that is loosly what you will be able to get the next fill to when you are using 1 scuba tank and filling tanks from roughly 1-1.2k psi. so that means roughly you will get around 10 and i would say 15 fills for them being useful fills off of 1 scuba tank for your 48ci tanks

now if you build a cascade system this goes up a bit as you are able to pack more pressure into each paintball tank but this requires multiple scuba tanks as well so if we are looking at it from a cost side, you would have to factor in filling 2,3or 4 scubas just to make the system more efficient not to mention the cost of buying all of the scubas in the first place

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Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that makes a firearm better makes a paintball marker worse. They are 2 very different worlds with nothing except a trigger in common

sjScott

Thank you Turbo!

Rather then telling me "the tank you are looking to purchase sucks don't get it" you actually explained to me some very important information about filling tanks myself. I'll stick with CO2. Thanks for all your help bud!