Dm13 vs pm13 - Paintball Forum - Paintball guns and gear forums
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Old December 4th, 2012, 12:19 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Dm13 vs pm13

Hey this is my first post I had a few questions. I have been doing a lot of research but can't find a couple of answers. I have been playing woodsball for the last 10 years and tried speedball for the first time recently ( what have I been missing!?) so I'm looking for a new gun. I love the dm 9 but can't afford a gun like that. I saw the proto matrix rail 2013 for 250 and it seems a lot is the same if not it is upgradable. Is this true? What are the big differences? I know the board is different and the bolt, some one said the frame was but the description states the 13 come with a ul frame. Also I have a j&j elite for my 98 and was thinking about one for the pmr. Will I see the same difference? Are there better barrel kits for the pmr that aren't outragesouly priced? I appreciate your time and input!
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Old December 4th, 2012, 02:11 PM   #2 (permalink)
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There is no PM13. PM8 was the last PM.
There is no PMR 2013. There is a Proto Rail and a Proto Reflex Rail (PR & PRR), I'm going to assume you mean these.

PR & PRR are mostly identical. The PRR has a better solenoid, better feedneck, on/off, etc. But real world performance is the same.

IF you pick up a PR/PRR you will see a marked difference from you 98. They will be quieter shooting and have less kick, while also being shorter and easier to maneuver in tight places. As for the barrel, I personally don't think there is a better kit ever made. This is my all time favorite kit, even with all hte uber light CF kits and such, I still think my J&J is the best.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 02:13 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Lets see...


A PMR - I'm goign to assume is a Proto Rail, or are we discussing the Reflex Rail?

To break these out -
They're both single regulated unbalanced spool valve markers. They shoot very much the same, but the Reflex has a nicer solenoid, better milling, and the barrel is 2 piece and will directly interface with the Ultralite series Dye barrels. The back is bored at a .690 - which is enormous...but I don't believe Dye offers that particular back size for sale.

The Rail is the Reflex with a bit of a dumbed down solenoid, single piece 10" barrel (if memory suits), and I think there was something with the frame and the feed neck/collar.

Honestly - the solenoid isn't that big of a deal, the barrel can be replaced with a nice J&J or a Freak kit for under $100, and the collar - i believe you can just buy the collar through Discount Paintball or ANS - allowing you to "upgrade" your marker to everything but the aesthetics of the Reflex...for about $200 less.


Don't get me wrong, I really do like my Reflex Rail...but part of me wishes I'd saved the $250 and spent it elsewhere.


When compared against the Dye Matrix - you're not getting a LPR, not getting the tolerances of the Matrix, and not getting the word DYE pressed into the marker.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 02:16 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thank you! I didn't realize the names were changed. I do mean the rail and reflex. If I pick up a rail are they fully upgradable to be the same as the dm13? I know it will cost but I'm deciding wether to buy the reflex or the rail. Can I put the lpr and the better valve in the rail to make it equivalent to the dm?

Sorry I just saw that second post exactly what I was looking for! Is the solenoid part of the board? Or is it air solenoid? Thanks again.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 02:18 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Nope - the Rail and Reflex do not have milling for the LPR. They're not bad shooting markers.



Then again - if Dye made a Matrix Jr...that could be upgraded to a Matrix for less than the cost of a Matrix...People would buy it up faster than they bought up the PM8...and Dye learned that lesson.


A solenoid is an electronic "switch" that controls the flow of air through the marker. While at rest, the solenoid paths the air to the beer can to hold the bolt back. When the switch is flipped, the pressure to hold the bolt back is evacuated - and the dump chamber is purged.

These are small electronic parts that are attached to the circuit board. They run between 80 and 120 each from manufacturers.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 02:27 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Awesome I'm gonna pick up the rail. If I really speedball and play regularly ill put a board/bolt/j&j/eye and clamp neck and have a slightly higher pressure dm13
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Old December 4th, 2012, 02:59 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Yep! You'll enjoy it.

The circuit board isn't worth an upgrade. Dye boards support current tourney modes. They also run about $100 - which is pressing another $100 ins to a $250 marker.

Save the cash for paint, or your next marker - or a better loader, or a pair of paintball pants. Or a Ninja 68/45, Or a dual pane thermal mask. Or ... you get the point
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Old December 4th, 2012, 03:09 PM   #8 (permalink)
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they dont work the same, rail is an unbalanced spool, DM series is a balanced spool, doesnt matter what you do to the rail, it will never be as good as the DM series. thats not to say you can not improve it but they are very different markers even though they may look similar on the outside
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Old December 4th, 2012, 03:24 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Can I change the valve?
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Old December 4th, 2012, 03:31 PM   #10 (permalink)
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There are diagrams available online to show you the different ways air interfaces with a rammer/bolt in order to cycle the marker. An unbalanced spool valve marker is not going to be capable of becoming a balanced spool without a significant rework. A balanced spool won't shoot like an unbalanced spool.

For starters -you'd need to add a second regulator, pathing for the air, a different bolt assembly and setup as you're using air to cycle it, not necessarily teh absence of air. You'll need a 4way(?) noid instead of a 3way....

THe differences are too significant to say that A is anywhere near B. The marker..will shoot sorta similar but only kinda like a cheaper version of a DM12/13 with an over-pressured LPR, as the actions are violent and not as controlled.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 03:38 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Ok thanks for the help. I'm going to get this and the j&j kit and hope its good enough for me. Any recommendations on a cheap e loader? Like 50$?
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Old December 4th, 2012, 03:40 PM   #12 (permalink)
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The advice would be to read the link in Trbo's signature, and not to spend $50 on a force-feed loader. =)
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Old December 4th, 2012, 06:45 PM   #13 (permalink)
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to make a long story short, you can not turn an unbalanced spool into a balanced spool, the valve is the bolt and from someone coming from 98c, the rail will be a fantastic upgrade in performance

on the hopper question, yes read through the guide, on a side note, its a little more than $50 but the halo too should be studied, it will be a great feeder for your situation
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Old December 4th, 2012, 06:48 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Awesome thanks again guys. I'm looking for a hopper now. I really don't want to spend a lot on a hopper. I saw one that is not an e hopper. But especially shaped are these a waste?
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Old December 4th, 2012, 06:51 PM   #15 (permalink)
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You'll not get the full potential of your marker if you don't use an electronic hopper.

You can find halos and reloaders for pretty cheap if you get them used.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 07:03 PM   #16 (permalink)
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^^^^

exactly, you could have the best marker in the world but putting a crappy hopper on it is like owning a dragster but only giving it one drop of fuel at a time.

really if you are not going to invest in a good hopper there is really not a huge point in moving to a rail

on a side note, do you already have a HPA tank because that will be needed for a rail as well?
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Old December 4th, 2012, 07:06 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Yes I have a cheap one 45/30 gorilla. It works I never had a problem with my 98 so I'm hoping it won't give me problems
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Old December 4th, 2012, 07:58 PM   #18 (permalink)
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small, but should be fine
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Old December 5th, 2012, 08:18 AM   #19 (permalink)
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On my 50/45 on a hot fill, I can put out about...I wanna say 6 pods, with the dump chamber mod using what a lady friend of mine has affectionately termed "Gooey Lube" - 2:1 mix of Dow33 and Air Tool Oil....


Considering that we've assessed the 4500 vs 3000 argument to be approximately 1/2 the usable volume of air... that'd be 3...or generously 4 pods?


If you're at somewhere with air and you don't mind refilling your tank after every game or two - wonderful!. If this is a concern or issue, or you hate running out of air...you may consider getting a 4500psi tank.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 08:39 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Most of the time we play privately and I have scuba tanks (4) 100ci. And a fill adapter so I don't mind. My tippman will get about 800 rounds? On this tank will the proto be worse?
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