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**badger109** · August 5th, 11:32 PM

Maybe thisthread from over at PBN might help. That gibson7 guy might know what he is talking about.

**KingFikiElectra** · August 5th, 11:38 PM

I think we can do it. U just have to order a rom chip. Of a tboard. or IS board. Then a circuit board. The chip is the hard part. So we cn just get one from a tboard. I doubt the chip alone is alot.

**samanoususke** · August 5th, 11:40 PM

Gahhhhh, badger, you beat me to it.

**badger109** · August 6th, 12:04 AM

**Javaman** · August 6th, 02:35 AM

Like I mentioned before, if you don't mind losing the multiple fire modes and LED status lights it won't even be necessary to use a board or chip. (unless you want to make the setup nice and professional looking)

I just need to make sure it is designed to deenergize the solenoid without releasing the trigger.

**Javaman** · August 6th, 11:38 AM

I may very well be overanalyzing the issue. Many of the simple timer circuits use a combination of resistors and small caps outside the chip to set the rate although I don't know if Kingman's chip does this externally or not. The only cap I remember seeing in my grip was the primary one for firing the solenoid. It may very well be as easy as replacing it with a smaller one which charges quicker or one could reduce the resistance in series between the cap and the battery (preferable way... The cap will retain the original kick but charge quicker!) You really don't want to go with too small of a cap since it will reduce the solenoid kick, possibly to the point of not even being strong enough to trip the seer. You might help it out a little by using a weaker mainspring or keeping the seer well lubed. When I get home I'm going to check the board a bit and see if there are any of the mini resistors hooked to the cap. A simple jumper wire would easily bypass one and increase the recharge rate of the cap. This is all assuming that the cap recharge rate is what regulates the max rate of fire. The best part is that no features of the board (Auto/Burst/LEDs will be lost) This is kinda fun!

**Javaman** · August 6th, 11:41 AM

Has anyone compared the T-board to the stock Kingman one? I wouldn't be surprised if they are very close to being the same thing, only wired differently to the capacitor. Can anyone post the chip ID on both of them?

Also does anyone know of a reliable way of measuring what the BPS rate is? I don't have access to an oscilloscope and recording it to a sound file to analyze is kind of a pain. If I do the latter, what is a good sound program to use that shows an accurate time scale?

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingFikiElectra

I think we can do it. U just have to order a rom chip. Of a tboard. or IS board. Then a circuit board. The chip is the hard part. So we cn just get one from a tboard. I doubt the chip alone is alot.

**KingFikiElectra** · August 6th, 12:18 PM

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...3Doff%26sa%3DN

I cant find the stock boards image but thats the Tboard. not to diffrent from a stock boad either. Just diffrent wiring. I wouldnt be suprised if it had the same number of resistors,capacitors and transistors.

**Javaman** · August 6th, 12:35 PM

It looks like he cut out several of the LEDs which simplifies things. (Less resistors at least) Do the T-Boards retain the Burst/Auto modes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingFikiElectra

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...3Doff%26sa%3DN

I cant find the stock boards image but thats the Tboard. not to diffrent from a stock boad either. Just diffrent wiring. I wouldnt be suprised if it had the same number of resistors,capacitors and transistors.

**samanoususke** · August 6th, 06:33 PM

No, I believe that the T-Board is semi only.

**Javaman** · August 7th, 12:59 PM

KingFIKI, do you still have the docs for the em78p153en chip? (I think that's the correct number, how about a confirmation from someone? It's hard for me to read it) I need to know which pin is used for the external timing. It looks like I was wrong when going by memory... There IS another capacitor on the board which looks promising since it is wired to a middle pin on the chip and the autofire limiter jumper along with several other bits. This double sided board is a pain to read in some places, but it looks like the other jumper pin goes to the middle pin on the opposite side of the chip. The mini capacitor might very well be what needs to be replaced in order to increase the ROF. It is kinda tricky to remove (not too hard though) so I would like to find out what the pin layout is for the chip first before I possibly fry my board with my lousy soldering skills. It looks like the large cap is definately not used to time the circuit since the T-Board uses one with the same capacitance (sp).

**Javaman** · August 7th, 02:17 PM

The closest I could find in English is at...

http://www.elan-europe.com/as/datash/EM78P153S.pdf

Assuming that the pin layout is the same as the slightly different numbered Kingman chip, here's how they appear to be hooked up.

1 General purpose I/O or pulldown. Connected to what looks like a GP Power transistor
2 GP IO, Connected to LEDs
3 GP IO, Connected to LEDs
4 Power suppy to chip... connected to standard transistor, (Unfortunately it's view is blocked so I can't tell which input it's using apart from knowing that it's not the middle one )Red Power LED, through several resistors to the solenoid cap, charger jack, and battery.
5 Many different types of functions....GP IO,External clock signal input, Input pin of XT osxillator, pull-high/open drain, wake from sleep. Seeing how it's connected to the status LEDs it is probably being used as a GP IO or PH/OD (not sure exactly what PH/OD does) It certainly doesn't look like it is used for timing the BPS
6 Same as 5
7 Several functions-device reset, wake from sleep. Unfortunately I can't see where this lead goes since it disappears under the small cap. From under the cap there are leds going to small power transistor and the LEDs. Wether these are connected to the the Cap or pin I can't tell until I remove the cap.
8 GP IO, Pull high/Open drain/Pull down, wake from sleep, or external timer. Theres a pad underneath the chip near it but I can't tell if it's connected or not. It's hard to say for sure since the view is limited. This could be the pin that a timer outside the chip activates.
9 Same as 8
10 Same as 8
11 Ground -Connected to many things on the board... Jumper, mode change button, middle pin of standard transistor, small capacitor.
12 General Purpose I/O, Pull down - Not used
13 General Purpose I/O, Pull down - Not used
14 General Purpose I/O, Pull down - Not used

The way the chip works, each pin can be used for a variety of things depending on how it's programmed.

Unfortunately since I can't quite see where pin 8 goes (It's the one closest to the board edge and the plugs for trigger etc) I can't tell for sure if it is externally timed. The only way to tell for sure is to break out the soldering iron and change the cap to a smaller size. Although I would be happy to try it, it would really suck if I screwed up my only board. Does anyone who upgraded their board to a different one still have their stock out that they could donate for the cause?

**Javaman** · August 7th, 04:33 PM

What the heck. Rumor has it that the Kingman board is uncapped in semi already...

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...1&pagenumber=1

and

http://www.kingman.com/ubbthreads/sh...=&fpart=1&vc=1

Can anyone confirm if this is true? No guessing please. I need to know for sure.
I hope I didn't waste all this time for nothing. At least I might be able to increase the ROF for burst and auto but it would be rather pointless since I never use them.

**Javaman** · August 10th, 05:12 PM

I'm still hoping to get a donor board before I try rewiring it. If it works I'll send it back to the donor modded.

**KidPaintball** · August 10th, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javaman

I wonder if the recharge speed of the large capacitor is the limiting factor why Kingman chose 13 BPS as a max speed? I'm guessing that they had to strike a balance between the amount of kick that the cap gives the solenoid and the length of time it takes to recharge it. Then again they might have chosen that speed since it is close to the max of gravity fed paintballs. I don't see why they would limit the BPS in such a competitive market otherwise.

Early, well, laterer 90s, when electros were comeing out, 13bops was the internation limite. Nobody goes by it now.

**Javaman** · August 10th, 07:56 PM

Yeah. Like I posted earlier the T board uses the exact same rated cap so that isn't the limiting factor. It's too bad other companies decided to get rid of the limit. I think that PB is going downhill as speeds increase. Ironic that I would say that while I'm trying to figure out how to uncap it huh?

I can't/don't want to shoot over 13 but I hate limitations.

**DylPckl24** · August 11th, 02:51 AM

well, i can get pics of both the stock and t-board if they are need. I recently recieved a t-board(today), and it is fast as hell. I bought it because my old board is fried. If anyone would like to borrow the stock board. I wouldnt mind shipping it out. I'd have to check the prices, but i wouldnt mind.

**Javaman** · August 11th, 11:53 AM

Well, I think I'm going to go for it tonight assuming I can find my soldering iron. I've got an old powersupply or two laying around somewhere that I can use as something to practice on and a source for capacitors. My first step will be to make a .wav recording of the gun on Auto so I have something to compare with the new cap (And to let me listen to my gun longingly if I fry my board)

Wish me luck.

**KidPaintball** · August 11th, 04:27 PM

Good Luck!