TonyD

I wasn't so much saying anything about the "typo" (It's not a typo. Typos are misspellings and stuff. EX: teh vs. the), but rather pointing out how he screwed up the exact same thing that was pointed out, specifically, in the post before it.

I'm a robot.

I'm trying my best to respect this Holiest of Holy Days. The contemperary American concept of "warrior" isn't one that I necessarily find worthy of praise. Many of those "serving" have distorted senses of "duty," and in the end are really nothing more than pawns in a war of egos.

Alpha

I see today as a day to reflet on the principles under which this nation was formed.

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TonyD

What if those principles have rapidly devolved or simply disappeared in those two-and-a-quarter centuries since then?

Sh00t em Up

I'd have to disagree on the Iraq thing. The middle east has a completely different belief system, though there are those few radicals who appose us, how many people does it take to rule once we leave? Somehow I think a radical tyrranical leader will find his way back to the head of gov't in Iraq and it will just start over again.

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-Pat

TRUKZ.COM VISIT IT... NOW!

Sh00t em Up

BTW- in no way do I not appreciate what our boys are doing over there or what you are doing for them its just a matter of opinion

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-Pat

TRUKZ.COM VISIT IT... NOW!

ComradeMolyneux

I had a really long post that I had to delete because my ideas went in so many directions.

So let me try to focus my thoughts.

Q.)Why should I respect the warrior?
A.)Because he defends your freedom to ask that very question.
(In my opinion, my freedoms are under attack more from people like democrats and republicans than from any outside country. Shouldn't they kill democrats and republicans in order to defend my freedoms then? You know who protects my freedoms now that I think of it? The ACLU.)

Q.) Why did he even join the service in the first place?
A.) Because he loves his country.
(Hmm... let's quit paying soldiers money, giving them signing bonuses and every other benefit given to them and then see who joins (but let's also assume that we weed out people who are crazy and racist which might also motivate people to join in this situation) People respond to incentives, and if you tell me that just as many people would join without the money, bonuses and free college, than I have a cat that can play Beethoven's 5th on his own liver.)

I'm trying to think of other typical responses on why we should respect soldiers blindly but I'm having trouble thinking of any. Post some responses and I'll do my best to answer them.

And don't go ballistic on me, I'm just arguing for arguments sake you cheesy melodramitic **** (to the guy who's going to end up scolding me in a few posts.

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BOO new layout

Everything for Everyone
And nothing for Ourselves

TonyD

Yes. I'll do it if they won't.

LOLZ

Now that it isn't the Blessed Forth of July, I suppose I can point something out that most, if not all of you, probably missed. (I said basically the same thing.)

MedicDVG

Well I am sorry Tony that you think my dedication to Honor, Duty and Country are sad comments and that I am a pawn of someones ego.

I do love the USA. I love the people, and I love dearly the ideals from which she was founded. It was in this spirit that I posted my message, not to start a debate on the Iraq war.

I am prohibited from commenting on that policy as I fall under the US Chain of Command. Suffice it to say I wouldn't be here if I didn't think for one minute that the mission was skewed. I am here by choice. Certainly I am paid a salary, as are the uniformed members of the Armed Services, but that is not my only motivation for being here.

I serve something bigger then me. I want to contribute to support those Ideals that everyone else takes for granted. I am willing to die for those ideals if that is what ends up happening. Can you say that from your easychair where you are spoon fed media drivel and pablum?

I never once said that the Government of the USA was perfect, far from it. But what I intended to present was to have people take a look from where we came, to recognize the sacrifice made by others that built and are building our country.

As for the Soldiers, Marines, Airmen and other representatives of the armed services, damn straight you owe them a debt. I don't care what you think of this war, but these are honorable people who are called to serve. This is an all volunteer military -- there are no conscripts and there is no draft. The burden they pay in blood is your price of admission to a free society. So yes, respect the soldier, for without them, this country would be nothing.

Finally, I respect your opinion, I think you are wrong and naive, but I can respect what you say. As the famous saying states -- "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend, unto death, your right to say it. -- Voltaire."

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TonyD

Don't take my posts or my stance as an attack on you as a man. You seem to be a very respectable, principled man who lives his life in the way he feels best and acts accordingly. Of course, my opinion is based solely off of words I see on the internet, thus opinions can be incorrect (as you seem to view me as an abrasive and uninformed teenager). What I aim for is not to criticize you, the person, but rather I implore self-exploration and deconstruction to assure that who you are and what you do does indeed relate to the natural world and simply makes sense.

I guess I'll address things in a backwards fashion...
Once again, I don't aim to attack or provoke you, but what reason do you have to say this? In what way is rationally scrutinizing every and all things naive? Logically, it seems the exact opposite. When is the last time that the United States military has acted in a truly honorable way that all citizens would agree was a worthy cause? WWII? The Revolutionary War? Even further back?

A noble and courageous man will not back down when his strength and ability is needed, but the days of protecting one's tribe, and consequently their homeland, are long gone (note: I would love for these days to return). Therefore I will not simply succumb to pressure and say that I find those who enlist to be honorable, because I do not believe they are "protecting our freedom," or really doing any other greater good.

I actually see this "protecting the American way-of-life" argument quite often, and I guess I can be honest and admit that I totally disagree with both the statement of this argument as well as the state-of-mind that it comes from.

The American lifestyle of excess, pretense and self-importance, "progress," and "freedom" is one that I wholly oppose, as these characteristics are either distorted visions that are apart from reality or blatant lies. The modern American soldier is not the heroic warrior of old, fighting valiantly to protect his family and his people. Rather, he (or she) is often acting on mixed-up values that they have received from past generations or falling into a non-specific role that our society has carved for people who can't decide on anything else to do. The very thought of servicemen and women being in the military as a career or profession alone is evidence of this, as being a soldier, or a "warrior," is no longer a trait among brave men, but simply a thing to do.

These are loaded statements, and I'm not sure if you intended it this way or not, but they appear a bit passive-aggressive and quite hostile; hostility makes people wary of credibility because the reader is not sure whether the person is just going on an angry tirade or if the combination of words just came off that way. This, again, is not a critique on you, but if we further this conversation I think it is something that everyone should be aware of.

Contrary to what you might want to think, I'm not just an ignorant teenager who is lazy and no-good and who is a plague on society. I have principles that I would indeed die for; I actually can't stand basically any mass-media and avoid it as much as possible. But being that I'm a very young man I haven't been given much of a chance to live the life I want to live yet. I fully intend to live a life in relation to nature and reality which I think any reasonable person would consider honorable, but I'm only nineteen, don't really have any money, and spent a good while coming to terms with my past desires being ****ed up. Soon enough, though, I will move out on my own (sort of... possibly a subsistence community for a while),begin my "life," and do my best to make a positive mark on the world.

Seems to me that if the US Government was so confident in their actions, they wouldn't forbid commenting on what they do. Hopefully that isn't naive of me...




So in the end I guess I am supposed to celebrate this "culture" because it doesn't restrict me as much as other governments could. That doesn't seem logical to me.

America didn't give me my "rights"—I was born with them.

ComradeMolyneux

But remember Medic, when you were still deciding to go you made a point about how much money you'd make, which may have been a huge incentive for you to go (only you would really know). And don't get me wrong, I think it's cool that you'd go over there to help people out, that's really nice of you.


Who should I respect more, a soldier or an illegal immigrant. The soldier joins the army to take advantage of the many benefits that come with service time (free college and such), and the illegal immigrant crosses the border illegally to take advantage of the slightly higher wages that will help put more food on his family's plate. Both face potential demise, and both have hard lives, so is one more deserving than another?

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BOO new layout

Everything for Everyone
And nothing for Ourselves

Alpha

Try to get back on track.

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Alpha

You should respect soldiers becuase they have a hard job to do. You go through training, they give you a gun and tell you to kill the enemy. Other humans man. Thats hard.

Look at history, we are such a successful nation because of our military exploits. As far as I'm concerned we wouldn't have half the privileges (or the technological advances) without a military.


EDIT: Almost forgot: You filthy red bastard.

im done

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imhungry

doesnt freedom cost a buck o' nine?

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TEAMLESS - d2 NPPL/PSP free agent. pm me

i need proflex soft ears and profiler lense clips!!!

AIM skamonkey68

XtremeAaron

You keep going back to the money and incentives. Think about if there were none, the draft would be in effect and people who dont give 2 ****s would be "defending" out country. Hell, you could be drafted.

And its not like they join for the money and dont do anything. Its hard, people become dehumanized, family's are separated, lives are lost. Its a gamble.

TonyD

I do respect bravery, courage, honor, a sense of duty... all those things that soldiers are supposed to have. I support and respect warrior/soldier-dom as a trait among human beings, but I do not inherently support soldier-dom as a "job" or an occupation that is simply another way to pass the time—in fact, I wholly oppose the idea of it being a "job."

I'm about to go into "call out mode" for a second, and I want to make sure that you don't take it the wrong way or take it personally. I don't understand you, Alpha. Much of the time you seem wholly opposed to modernity/modernism (whichever you prefer) and many of the ill effects it has brought to our world, but then other times you seem to be totally opposed to that standpoint and supportive of "marching ever onwards in the name of freedom." I hate to say it, but you can't really have it both ways.

Yes. So I guess I've been wrong this whole time: Freedom isn't free—it cost's a buck o' nine (but probably a buck ten or a buck eleven soon, due to inflation of course).

D_Smalls

4.95 here. 40 ounces to freedom.

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Wait, what?
2k3 Vert Autococker in red
Dye Sticky Grips | Worr Blade Bolt | CP 1 Piece
Same HPA tank and Hopper as listed below

PMI Piranha PRO TS with Blue Fade
Pure Energy 48ci 3000psi Compressed Air Tank
Ricochet AK Motorized Hopper

Phantom VSC w/45 in red