It came to my attention that it would be possible to house everyone who needs a home in America. All the homeless, all the low income, everyone could live in decent, crime free housing in the form of condominiums.
In the 60s, they had the same idea and built the projects. However, we could change the rules. Recreate these condos and make them modern and then give away free housing for everyone who wants it in exchange for a commitment. We would require the owner guard the condo where we live against property crime. We would require they check up on the elderly and disabled and go shopping for them. We would require they learn to fix and then fix simple plumbing and electrical problems.. We would require they do bi-annual painting of all interiors and exteriors. In exchange, all housing would be free.
We give prisoners free housing don't we?
The cost to build these condos is minimal, maybe $7,000 per unit if done en-mass. Drywall is dirt CHEAP and that is 90 percent of the material in a house or condo!!! How do I know? I am a licensed property adjuster and deal with this stuff every day.
The owner would be responsible for insurance, condo fee and local property taxes. Since the condo is worth $7,000 these fees should be minimal and could be paid for by a part time job working just a few hours a week. Those who couldn't work could pay due to disability could pay with their government subsidies. This would also pay for regular security guards (bouncers) of each condo to take care of anyone who didn't belong.
What happens if they do not abide by the rules? There would be a condo board and they would get kicked out. It would definitely be in their best interest to cooperate. We can do this.
The problem is that our money is stretched so thin as it is (and by stretched thin I mean we're completely, utterly, hopelessly in debt) that it is not possible for it to happen.
As well, corruption would be rampant. People would disobey their "contracts" to keep out crime for things like drugs and the security guards would probably be in danger. While it's obviously not a majority, gang presence would not take kindly at all to this idea, and a small group of people can very easily indefinitely delay a project like this.
As well, you're not thinking out maintenance costs, utilities, salaries for all the "condo boards" (because there would have to be one per condo, and at least 5-6 people per board), and up-front costs like furnishing.
As well, many many people would get kicked out. Where are they supposed to go then? If that happens we will end up with areas where all of the "problem" people relocate to after being evicted and we'll have small areas of very concentrated violent and petty crime.
It's like socialism - it's a good idea in theory, but in reality it can't work. From my point of view, anyway.
*edit*
As well, you're forgetting that if the government is doing this, the ending price of the condominium will often end up being double or triple the proposed price at the beginning of planning and construction, simply because the government is inefficient.
*edit 2*
Bi-annual painting of interiors AND exteriors? That's another VERY high expense. Nobody paints their house ONCE a year, much less TWICE a year. I could see maybe every other year they repaint the outside, but more than that is overkill.
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Originally Posted by D_Smalls
When I went streaking and left a nudist colony behind..
I am going out of town until August 8th... Although I don't know why you would need me.
I stated once that if we are low on money why not print more? The country circulates american bills why not print more? I got excuses like its not the money its the value of gold or something like that. Then I said why not mine for gold. Then they said its oil too. I said why not drill for oil? This country confuses me.
I stated once that if we are low on money why not print more? The country circulates american bills why not print more? I got excuses like its not the money its the value of gold or something like that. Then I said why not mine for gold. Then they said its oil too. I said why not drill for oil? This country confuses me.
Lol....Do I really need to explain Macroeconomics 101 to you? Have you taken a high school economics class?
I know its like interest and such. It would cause inflation but it just sometimes makes no sense in ways to me. Money circulates, no one throws it out. Bah I cant make a case right now time for bed.
It's called Habitat for Humanity. If you help build it, you can have it. There are programs out there; If people choose to not use them, that's their issue. It may sound harsh, it may sound cruel, but it's the way the world works. You have you rich, you have your poor, and you have your in between. The people that work for what they want deserve what they get, and those that don't, can't complain. Simple as that.
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Originally Posted by 1337
So, are you trying to say you like dick?
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Originally Posted by D_Smalls
When I went streaking and left a nudist colony behind..
I don't understand why churches and 'family groups' spend millions of dollars a year on abstinence-only instruction when a World of Warcraft account only costs fifteen dollars a month and has a much better record of ensuring virginity.
"I wish I was your derivative so I could lay tangent to your curves"
^^^best pickup line since "Wanna f***?"
I stated once that if we are low on money why not print more? The country circulates american bills why not print more? I got excuses like its not the money its the value of gold or something like that. Then I said why not mine for gold. Then they said its oil too. I said why not drill for oil? This country confuses me.
We already print a lot. The overall wealth of the nation will not increase by printing more money. There has to be actual, tangible increases in efficiency and better allocation of labor.
We do drill for oil and mine for gold. Unfortunately our government discourages gold as money these days.
Also does anyone else find it amazing that we're propping up housing prices right now?
__________________ "I have no mercy or compassion in me for a society that will crush people, and then penalize them for not being able to stand up to the weight"- Malcom X
I know its like interest and such. It would cause inflation but it just sometimes makes no sense in ways to me. Money circulates, no one throws it out. Bah I cant make a case right now time for bed.
It's inflation for sure. Think about it in terms that isn't money. If we used rocks as our currency - something you can go outside right now and collect thousands of - who would want to do work and receive them? Why would you go build a house for someone if all you receive is something you have thousands of already? They would have to give you millions of rocks to make it worth while for you.
However, if our currency was diamonds, or gold, or other rare items that have an inherit value...Well, you would probably be willing to build a house for just a few diamonds.
Money is the same way. Printing it just turns it into rocks, lowering the value till it's worthless. Look at Germany before WW2 - they printed so much money, people used it to burn for heat. Or look at Zimbabwe today. They are so inflated that they are continually creating new dollar amounts - such as a billion dollar bill. I forget the exact figures, but a loaf of bread was something like $6,000,000 dollars. People literally have millions of dollars, but it is all worthless.
"Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime."
Yes, some people are in desperate need of housing and their situation does not allow for them to easily procure what they need. These are the people that need help and deserve help.
However, the problem is separating those people from people that are just lazy and want a free condo.
I can tell you right now, as a land lord, building a bunch of buildings and then renting them out for free with the caveat that people must obey their lease simply won't work. Hell, I can't get people to stick to their lease even when I'm holding thousands of dollars of their money as security.
In the long run, all it will do is create another crime and poverty stricken slum.
The alternative, is to help people on a case by case basis. This is done through charity work. It's not the most efficient system, but it helps to ensure that the ones who really deserve help and are making every effort to get it, are the ones who do get the help.
__________________ 2003 Summer Super Moderator and Most Informative Award Winner
Isnt it also based on like gold and stuff tho? Why not mine for gold again?
Unfortunately, our currency is not based on gold anymore. You have Nixon to thank for that (though it started long before him). This is part of the reason why our dollar is so weak - it is based on nothing but our word.
What would you say if I handed you a piece of paper that I claim is worth $100? That's basically what you're doing every time you buy something. The government is giving you it's word that money has value - there is no gold or silver backing it.
Unfortunately, our currency is not based on gold anymore. You have Nixon to thank for that (though it started long before him). This is part of the reason why our dollar is so weak - it is based on nothing but our word.
What would you say if I handed you a piece of paper that I claim is worth $100? That's basically what you're doing every time you buy something. The government is giving you it's word that money has value - there is no gold or silver backing it.
End the Fed. Bring back the gold standard.
-Jin
Don't forget to get rid of the unconstitutional income tax.
Before FDR and the great depression people traded gold dollar coins around just as much as the dollar. And since there was so much gold in use people knew that one dollar would be with a certain amount of gold in coin. During the depression FDR made gold illegal to trade by but the dollar was still backed by it.
__________________ "I have no mercy or compassion in me for a society that will crush people, and then penalize them for not being able to stand up to the weight"- Malcom X
Isnt it also based on like gold and stuff tho? Why not mine for gold again?
Couple of things.
1. Printing more money just decreases its value. What gives things (whether it's money, or gold, etc) its value is the scarcity of the item. The German government tried to do this in the 1930's and if you have taken a history class on WWII, you will undoubtedly run across pictures of people using money as firewood. That's how worthless it was, the German government printed so much that it meant nothing. Going down that road will not help anything.
2. We are no longer on the "Gold Standard", as has been pointed out. It's not that we don't have enough gold- look at Fort Knox, for example- it's just that our supply of gold is not tied to the value of our paper currency. Obtaining more would do nothing until they are linked together.
3. Ok, on the gold standard- bringing it back is preposterous, and it shows a lack of knowledge about economics. Let's hit part of the argument here, in brief:
First off, if it's sold on midnight cable, it's PROBABLY not a good idea to buy it. Not even if Billy Mays is the pitch man for it. Tying our currency to a precious metal, and having the government spend money that doesn't exist to obtain more gold is a foolish idea as well.
Between 1833 and 2001, gold has averaged 1.54% in value increase per year.
From 2001 until now, gold has averaged 15% a year.
Normally, you look at these numbers and say "heck, if it's increasing in value, why not tie it to our currency? It would increase the value of the currency as its value goes up!"
Not so.
Please keep in mind that gold has not been used as a medium of exchange in a failed economy since the Roman Empire. That was almost a millenia ago. We live in an economy based on goods and services, and THAT is what becomes valuable in a decimated economy, not gold. When people rush the banks or want their funds immediately, the government can give them all the gold that's backing up their assets but it won't do anything to improve the situation. After all, you can't eat gold. It's only useful if someone is willing to buy it. And if you have no buyers, or everyone has it, you are totally screwed. No matter how valuable gold may appear, it really has no value because it will never become the medium of exchange in our economy, no matter how bad things get.
If it is at a 176-year high, why would you buy gold? Would you buy a stock when it's at its all-time high? Of course not. Gold doesn't work for the same reason. It would be a foolish investment for the government to do so, just like it's a stupid idea for you to listen to the lady with a fancy-sounding British accent telling you to call now for your gold buying kit. Someone's losing money, and it's sure as heck not that British lady. That would be the buyer (i.e. YOU).
The gold standard used to work a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, but that boat has sailed. We can't keep looking to the past for solutions to the problem, except with one exception: people need to learn how to be self-reliant and not expect handouts from the government to sustain themselves. If the people want to live like adults, they need to be accountable as adults as well for their actions. It is not "decent" to give people everything they want or need just because they are human- it is actually the opposite. We instead make the statement that "you can't hack it in the real world, so you need society to give you a crutch to keep you up to speed with the rest of us". That's anything BUT making someone feel empowered to improve their circumstances and develop new skills to sustain themselves.
Quote:
"You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should be doing for themselves"
Well, to begin with, many prominent economists with far more knowledge than either of us support a return to the gold standard, or some alternative that would be infinitely better than the current fiat system. (1234) Obviously not all economists agree, but the simple fact that the idea is not limited to uneducated individuals would refute your claim that the idea is "preposterous" and that it "shows a lack of knowledge about economics." The fact that gold is sold on midnight cable has nothing to do with your argument - not sure why you mentioned it.
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Originally Posted by DuoDSG
Between 1833 and 2001, gold has averaged 1.54% in value increase per year.
From 2001 until now, gold has averaged 15% a year.
The fact about gold increasing so sharply since 2001 is interesting, but again, not really important. If anything, you've shown the stability of gold. If you remember, in 2001 we had September 11th, and since then we have only gone down hill. Obviously people panic (and for good reason) and decide to purchase something that has real value, rather than keep a fiat currency which will only decrease in value. This alone could account for the increase of the price of gold. (12) As you said, for 150+ years gold has been stable. The past 8 years it's price has risen....I'm no statistics major, but the trend would point towards stability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuoDSG
Please keep in mind that gold has not been used as a medium of exchange in a failed economy since the Roman Empire. That was almost a millenia ago. We live in an economy based on goods and services, and THAT is what becomes valuable in a decimated economy, not gold. When people rush the banks or want their funds immediately, the government can give them all the gold that's backing up their assets but it won't do anything to improve the situation. After all, you can't eat gold. It's only useful if someone is willing to buy it. And if you have no buyers, or everyone has it, you are totally screwed. No matter how valuable gold may appear, it really has no value because it will never become the medium of exchange in our economy, no matter how bad things get.
As far as not being able to use gold, this simply isn't true. We used gold up until 1933/1971 (kind of) without any problems. The fact is, gold has an inherit value. You can't eat it, but last time I checked you can't eat paper money, either. So how is that any better? Where gold has an advantage is that, regardless of what government is backing it, people somewhere will always want it. You make all these arguments against gold, yet if you apply them to our current fiat system, it makes my argument FOR a gold standard all the stronger...
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Originally Posted by DuoDSG
If it is at a 176-year high, why would you buy gold? Would you buy a stock when it's at its all-time high? Of course not. Gold doesn't work for the same reason. It would be a foolish investment for the government to do so, just like it's a stupid idea for you to listen to the lady with a fancy-sounding British accent telling you to call now for your gold buying kit. Someone's losing money, and it's sure as heck not that British lady. That would be the buyer (i.e. YOU).
If we had never gone off the standard in the first place, and never relied on a fiat currency that is constantly manipulated by a central bank run by a bunch of government cronies, then we wouldn't have the inflated prices we do now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuoDSG
The gold standard used to work a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, but that boat has sailed. We can't keep looking to the past for solutions to the problem, except with one exception: people need to learn how to be self-reliant and not expect handouts from the government to sustain themselves. If the people want to live like adults, they need to be accountable as adults as well for their actions. It is not "decent" to give people everything they want or need just because they are human- it is actually the opposite. We instead make the statement that "you can't hack it in the real world, so you need society to give you a crutch to keep you up to speed with the rest of us". That's anything BUT making someone feel empowered to improve their circumstances and develop new skills to sustain themselves.
"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
We have a lot to learn from our past, and YES, the solutions are there. This is just a ridiculous claim to make. Hindsight is always 20/20, so why not learn from it? Have you seen what has happened to our country, our economy, and our CURRENCY since moving off the gold standard? Have you seen what the FED has consistently done to it? We are at the point where the rest of the world is fed up and ready to get rid of the dollar as the primary reserve currency.
I'm not really sure what the end of your post has to do with your argument, but the fact is fiat money and the FED need to end. A return to a gold standard (or non-fiat based at least), along with letting the free market control itself rather than artificially propping up prices and inflation rates, would restore balance to the system and help out tremendously with our current financial crisis. Instead, since we are NOT on the gold standard, the government simply continues to write IOUs and print more money, devaluing our dollar day by day.
Give a man fire and he'll be warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
If this were true burn wards wouldn't exist.
I am just kidding. Andrew is a wonderful, intelligent human being.
__________________ "I have no mercy or compassion in me for a society that will crush people, and then penalize them for not being able to stand up to the weight"- Malcom X
Last edited by Number One Andrew : October 25th at 07:35 PM.
Reason: he forgot to add the last part
Is it possible?
"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
