Thread Tools

***Alpha*** · August 17th, 11:13 AM

True with the whole shotugn thing, but I dont own a mansion. Anyways, an Mp5 would be nice for that situation. Theres a big difference between holding a pistol and holding an SMG or a rifle or shotgun. Way big.

**Javaman** · August 17th, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HP_lovecraft

A simple 12g with light shot is perfect for home defense, or a pistol with frangile ammo.
nick

That frangible ammo is pretty neat. I saw a bit on Modern marvels about it and how they were going to use it (I don't know if it was developed originally for this) for armed marshalls on airline flights to protect innocents from friendly fire. They had an officer shoot at a steel target only a couple feet away without fear of ricochets. I certainly wouldn't want to get shot by one though. Imagine how tough it would be to get all those grains out. Sepsis city!

**jacobsdad** · August 17th, 12:20 PM

Uh...shooting from the hip in full auto is not more accurate. Select shoulder firing is accurate. Full auto can be more effective and intimidating.

**HP_lovecraft** · August 17th, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacobsdad

Full auto can be more effective and intimidating.

Well.. I suppose.
First, let me say that I am a 100% total gun nut, but to use a real F/A gun effectively requires EXTENSIVE training. Any gun requires training, but F/A can be difficult to control for accuracy aiming.
Intimidating? Sure, any gun is, but you NEVER, NEVER give "warning shots", so really there is no use for a F/A for self-defense.

To put simply, its a really bad choice. I can't stress that enough. Plus, even if you are an ex-green beret and ARE qualified to shoot the F/A, its still not 'politicall acceptable'. I KNOW this is a ridiculous notion, but if you have to shoot someone to defend your life, IT IS ALMOST GAURRENTEED THAT someone related to that guy will sue you.
If you have an "EVIL" gun, and a totally stupid jury, you stand a very good chance of getting sued.
Yes, I know this sounds stupid, BUT IS THE TRUTH. If you ever take a CCW class, they will cover this in depth. (ie Why a TEC-9 is NOT a good gun to carry concealed).

While I think Class-3 weapons are cool, I don't want to own one, and I don't think anyone would really care if they were banned. Its really only pressure from hollywood that keeps them quasi-legal, but thats a totally seperate issue.

Now, the "assualt-weapons ban" is a completely different isssue. IT ONLY BANS gun based on COSMETICS. Ie shape of stock, shape of grip, length, weight, etc. It DOES NOT have anything to do with function. Its a clever trick by the gun-control nuts because they just have to slightly keep chaning the rules on cosmetics to ban more and more guns. (This is why imported rifles follow different standards then domestic rifles).

That said, LETS NOT BE CALLING PEOPLE NAMES. Flatline seems like a smart guy, and sounds like he is quoting typical liberal dogma. While I don't agree with him, HIS OPINION IS VALID. in fact, its the popular opinion outside of our country.

Nick

**Pr0ph3t** · August 17th, 03:38 PM

His opinion is valid, yet his points are wrong. So I don't see a reason to let him spew misinformation.

**Flankergeek** · September 1st, 07:15 AM

Being English i find it insane that you were evr allowed to buy assault weapons in the first place, over here it is extremly hard to get a Firearms License - a legal document from the police cerifing that you are responsile enough to own a rifled weapon. Harnd guns were banned after a bunch of kids got murdered in a school some years back. Automatic and pump action shotguns are also illegal. Double-barrelled shotguns in either the over-under or side by side configuration are legal but you must hva e aconsultation with the police prior to purchasing and are required to kepp it in a metal gunsafe, unloaded, wthout any ammunition. I know cos my dad used to shoot, but got bored of it and sold the gun off eventually. I think it was more about pissing my mum off than anything else.

Assault weapons are build to kill people. The first Assalt Rifle, the German Stumgewehr 44, was intended to allow infantry soldiers to provide their own covering fire, the idea being that in the close confines of urban areas, a full rile (bolt action/semi auto) and a full sized cartige were not much use because you very rarely engaged targets more than 200 yards away. So they cut down the round makign it smaller in terms or range, and allowed the weapon to fire on full auto or burst. Making a much more versatile killing machine - for killing people.

Assault weapons, defined by Wikepedia as:

"a nebulous term used in the United States by public officials, media, and gun-control proponents as a dysphemism to refer to certain firearms they consider inappropriate in civilian ownership."

Are just that, inappropriate. Why on earth is anyone ever going to need that much firepower? DOn't anyone dare quote the second ammendment, everyone with a brain who'se read some history knows its' just a hangover from revolutionary times(and don't give be any crap about hangovers either, i'm english and as a rule, we drink like fish). It was a way of guarenteeing the 13 original states their independance becase no-one really believed that this "all men are created equal" thing would work out.
So given that, it's not actually fundemental right to own as much firepower as you want, why is it that certain weapons should be banned? Becasue you might go and do somthing bloody stupid with them, that's why. Given the fact that every year 11,000 people die from gunshot wounds and many thousands more are left hospitalised or disabled. If there wern't any guns then there would be fewer gun-related deaths. that's a no brainer. But why would there be fewer deaths? Not becasue poeple wouldn't want to kill other people, but becasu it would be more difficult. It's comparitivle easy to shoot someone (it's removed form you, it's not you doing the killing, it's the gun), rather than to say, knife them or beat them to death with you bare hands, for starters they might fight back so the risk is increased, and secondly it's gonna require alot of effort planning, and other struff which most people when they're angry and pissed off just really arn't up for.

So there it is. Guns don't kill people, but they sure as hell make it easier. That's why you should have restrictions on what's available.

**Pr0ph3t** · September 1st, 07:57 AM

All I gotta say - You're English, you don't have my 2nd amendment.

***Alpha*** · September 1st, 08:41 AM

Above that, isn't knife crime WAY more out of control in england? If someone wants to kill, they can do it with just about anything.

There is no such thing as an assault weapon. Its just a name. As stated before by HP,

Quote:

Originally Posted by HP_lovecraft

IT WAS ABOUT BANNING HUNTING RIFLES. Yes, they showed pictures of "evil looking" AKs and M16s, but can anyone here tell me the difference between an AK47 and a generic self-loading hunting rifle, like the Remmington 7600?

Mechanically THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE. The liberals fooled everyone who supported the law (and STILL are).

Nick

The AWB is more on cosmetics then anything. It was made up by people who knew nothign about guns, so they banned all teh wrong things.

I'll tell you all something, I dont have the balls to kill anyone that is innocent. I wouldn't want to becuase I believe in the exact opposite. I want a gun so I can work on my marksmanship, so I can protect myself and my family, and becuase I CAN.

**DownButNotOut** · September 1st, 09:16 AM

One Day you will be able to all you just said Alpha...But right now your 15 and you should really start obsessing about something else and wait till you can actually legally own a firearm

When my dad was 14 he already had a collection of 2 double barrel shotguns ( with with very lovely engravings i might add ) a .22 w/scope and some other sort of rifle.

This was a long while ago, (1960's) and yes the laws change...but i visited my grandparents on his side a month or two back ( Yeah there all hicks who live in Mississippi ) And kids my age still owned Firearms along the lines of what my dad had. Anyone know of the Laws down south on Gun Control?

**Flankergeek** · September 1st, 09:50 AM

Knife's are rather less lethal than high-velocity bullets. Alos i think you're somewhat over stating the problem a little. Last eyar there were only 36 knife murders in the whole country. Pretty good considering there's a good 60 million people living here. I respect you Alpha and i understand that YOU would never deliberatly kill an innocent person. However, not everyone is as down to earth and stable.

In Britain the constitution is mostly unwritten. Some parts of it are written down as Acts of Parliment such as the Bill of Rights which dates back to the 17th century. It was entitled: "An Act Declaring the Rights and Liberties of the Subject and Settling the Succession of the Crown"

It entitled all british subjects to, among other thing's, the

"freedom to bear arms for self-defence, as allowed by law"

So there you go, we can bear arms. Withing the constaints of the law. The law says, bearing arms is generally a bad idea. Betterto let someone else do it for you, (IE the police) unless it's really necessary.

As for "there's no such thing as assault weapons" surely you can define it as a weapon designed to be used to assault. So, logically that would cover all weapons capable of automatic and burst fire - modes important when assualting, they have no other purpose. i mean when exactly are you going to need to fire on full auto to "defend you home" which seems a strange thing to need to do in suburban america anyway.

**HP_lovecraft** · September 1st, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flankergeek

As for "there's no such thing as assault weapons" surely you can define it as a weapon designed to be used to assault. So, logically that would cover all weapons capable of automatic and burst fire - modes important when assualting, they have no other purpose.

YOU do not understand.

Liberal politicians in American DO NOT define as "assault weapon" as capable of automatic and burst fire.

They define it AS A SEMI-AUTO ONLY firearm, with certain cosmetic features, such as the shape of the stock, or if it has heat shroud.

The TRUE definition of an "assault-rifle" is a medium-powered rifled with full/auto or burst capability. The MP44 you suggested is the classic example.

BUT THIS IS NOT LEGAL. IT HAS NEVER BEEN LEGAL.

Our politicians decided to take the term, and apply it to hunting rifles, FOR NO OTHER REASON THEN TO BAN THEM. They also changed the term from "assault-rifle" to "assault-weapon", to they can also include pistols and shotguns. Even certain PUMP shotguns were included.

THIS IS WHY the term "assault weapon" is meaningless. Politicians have made it that way, and this is clearly demonstrated by the fact that you don't even know what it is.

Now, I understand you don't actually live here, so you have fallen for the typical liberal trap. They SHOW images of full/auto AK47, and LIE TO YOU and tell you that these should be banned BUT THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN LEGAL.
It is a lie. They are actually banning hunting rifles.

Nick

**Flankergeek** · September 1st, 10:50 AM

Point taken. Still, you guys have way more gun's than can possibly be good for you.

**HP_lovecraft** · September 1st, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flankergeek

Knife's are rather less lethal than high-velocity bullets. Alos i think you're somewhat over stating the problem a little. Last eyar there were only 36 knife murders in the whole country. Pretty good considering there's a good 60 million people living here.

The point was that criminals will use whatever they can to commit crimes. Its a cliche, but guns don't kill people.

The violent crime rate for England and Australia IS MUCH higher then the USA. (almost double in fact).
Is this because of the restrictive gun laws giving criminals freedom to do what they want?
I don't know. My guess is its probobly something cultural, since some countries, like Japan, have very low violent crime rates, and restrictive gun laws.

Nick

**david_4x4** · September 1st, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flankergeek

Point taken. Still, you guys have way more gun's than can possibly be good for you.

Personally I don't think I have enough.

Hers a pic of what we ahve in the first safe I came to. To lazy to take pics of the rest of the stuff.

Here's a nice box full of Garands we have.

Let me throw in some pics of some of those deadly and scary "assault weapons"

God do I love living in The United States.

God Bless Texas

rory096 · September 1st, 11:54 AM

Someone's a gun whore

**DownButNotOut** · September 1st, 12:03 PM

^^ True

Now all these are yours? Or is it sort of a family collection..

**david_4x4** · September 1st, 12:10 PM

It's a combined collection between me and my father. I buy something he buys something. It all winds up in the same place.

**Flankergeek** · September 1st, 01:05 PM

Cool. Mind if i ask why? Just trying to understand - feckless english person here.