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**Flankergeek** · September 28th, 02:26 PM

Hey all.

Was just over at IMDB.com reading some forumns. I was astounded to find that someone thought that becasue the Nazi's were the 'National Socialist German Workers Party' that they were therefore Socialist! I couldn't believe that educated people could be so ignorant!

Anyway i'm doing The Rise of Nazi Germany for my AS Modern History course, so it just happened to hit a nerve.

I was thinking maybe i coudl post like a series of mini eassy's on here. Trying to explain what you've learnt in class to a bunch of peopel you've never met has to be a good way to reinforce what you've picked up? right?

BZ · September 28th, 02:33 PM

Yeah.. might want to hold off on that for a bout a week though. but yeah I would definitely be interested in seeing those in the future though!

**Number One Andrew** · September 28th, 02:49 PM

Nazis? Socialist? Wtf, nazi germany was extreme RIGHT wing, not left. Socialist's are kind of like commies, only not. And remember Nazi's hated the communist party.

rory096 · September 28th, 03:10 PM

They were fascist, weren't they?

**Number One Andrew** · September 28th, 03:29 PM

Yes, fascist is the far right wing, and communism is the far left.

**airsoft guy** · September 28th, 03:41 PM

The NAZI's were socialists, that's the basis for their system.

Furthermore just because you're a socialist doesn't mean you like communism. Orson Wells, writer of 1984, was a hardcore socialist, he hated pure capitalism and communism.

**ComradeMolyneux** · September 28th, 03:51 PM

Last I heard the Germans were both Ultra Nationalist and Ultra Capitalists. Sounds fascist to me.........

**braka** · September 28th, 03:58 PM

^^ ditto

The left and right systems are an oversimplification. The government system was socialist but the style of government was fascist.

Spyder_Pimper#1 · September 28th, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number One N00b

Yes, fascist is the far right wing, and communism is the far left.

now lets talk about the crimes they both commited,no i wont because i would get to pissed off,any ways hitler made a pact with the commies to say he wouldnt atack them ,then he envaded poland then he invaded russian very good tactic,and people still hate the commies i for 1 hate em and u see how far there govermnet got em,it collaped,germany did also but theyre still called germany now the soviet union,and if we would have temed up with germany it would have avoided many conflicts,cuba,afganistian,and the cold war.just my opionion.

**ComradeMolyneux** · September 28th, 08:04 PM

Ya, stalin and his anti-revisionist communism sucked and it was predicted that anti-revisionism would lead to an end of the soviet union (Trotsky predicted that) and the US played just as much a part of the third world war ('cold war') as the commies.

**pbpro115** · September 29th, 12:16 AM

anyone remeber that family episode where stuey and the dog are in germany, and they grap a brochure on the train, and Brain says "exuse me, why is the section between 1939-1945 crossed out on the time line" and the german guy goes "NOTHIN HAPPEND!!!"

**Flankergeek** · September 29th, 02:07 AM

With respect to talkign about the Nazi's as a far right party we are indeed correct. However, it is important to recognise that the far-right and centre right have different stances on just about everything except economics where rampant capitalism is prefered over a carefully controlled economic policy.

The same is true of Socialist and Communism. Socialist are centre-left wing parties who believe in change through the system - new laws, union rights etc.Under a socialist government there is no major and rapid modification of the system intitutions or laws, merely chanegs that creep forward towards the socialist ideal. there is balence in a socialist system. Communists advocate the violent destruction of the systm, redistribution of wealth and a totally new system. (IE Russia in 1917-1920)

The rise of Hitler can be blamed, in part, on the failure of many German newspapers to differentiate betweeen the hard-line moscow back Communiosts who were rioting on the streets of Berlin in the early 20's. And the moderate Socialist in the Reichstag who were desperatly trying to crush the uprisings.

**Number One Andrew** · September 29th, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyder_Pimper#1

now lets talk about the crimes they both commited,no i wont because i would get to pissed off,any ways hitler made a pact with the commies to say he wouldnt atack them ,then he envaded poland then he invaded russian very good tactic,and people still hate the commies i for 1 hate em and u see how far there govermnet got em,it collaped,germany did also but theyre still called germany now the soviet union,and if we would have temed up with germany it would have avoided many conflicts,cuba,afganistian,and the cold war.just my opionion.

Before you state your "opinion" learn how to speak the English language. ComradeMolyneux do you suggest any good books on the subject? The only communist book I've read so far was the Communist Manifesto...

**The Timmynator** · September 29th, 06:59 AM

The National Socialists were not socialists. They did not pursue the socialist world revolution, as found in the Communist Manifesto.
he NSDAP was originally created from the DAP(German Workers Party), and was only given the "National" and "Socialist" prefixes to attract more people. In their propanganda, they used nationalistic (remember that Germany had lost WW I and suffered heavy reparations after that, thus diminishing the German´s national feeling/pride) and socialist claims, because those claims, combined with rhetoric art, were what most people resonded to.

SpyderPimper, you seriously need to go back to school and have a very thourough look at history. First of all, the USSR, didn´t collapse because everyone else "teamed up" against them, and surely not because your government "got them that far". It collapsed because they had a political and economic system that did work at that time, and won´t work out in the near future either.
Second: No, Germany did not collapse. The GDR (German Democratic Republic), more commonly known as Eastern Germany, held free elections after the demise of the USSR and opted to join Western Germany to create the state of Germany to be found today.
Third: Do you seriously think that your country, who embraces personal, aswell as religious and political freedom as their highest ideals, would have allied itself with a facist, anti-semitic and dictatorial government ?

**HippoMaster** · September 29th, 04:54 PM

Amen Timmy.

And for point #1, Communism will only work when the need for humans to do anything to survive is gone. Thus, when the world is perfect, Communism will be the right govt. system for us.

I just started reading a book about the Third Reich... it's very boring, but very interesting at the same time somehow. The style is like a textbook, but the material kicks ass.

**ComradeMolyneux** · September 29th, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number One N00b

Before you state your "opinion" learn how to speak the English language. ComradeMolyneux do you suggest any good books on the subject? The only communist book I've read so far was the Communist Manifesto...

Books to read:
'History of the Russian Revolution' - Leon Trotsky
"State and Revolution" - Lenin (can be found here) http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/Lenin/staterev/
'Our Word is our Weapon' - Subcomandante Marcos (It's about anti-neoliberalism and Zapatismo) ((Really good))
'Profit over People' 'Rouge Nations' '9/11' - Noam Chomsky (Casts a different light on US policys)
'What Liberal Media?' - Eric Alterman (About media bias) ((another good book))

You can also read some neat stuff and check out pictures on www.marxists.org and http://marxists.org/history/etol/index.htm (2nd link is all trotsky

)

and that's what I can think of right now. Just check em out as you get the chance, they'll all make you (or anyone else on this forum) more knowledgeable and make you look at things with an alternative view.

**ComradeMolyneux** · September 29th, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Timmynator

SpyderPimper, you seriously need to go back to school and have a very thourough look at history. First of all, the USSR, didn´t collapse because everyone else "teamed up" against them, and surely not because your government "got them that far". It collapsed because they had a political and economic system that did work at that time, and won´t work out in the near future either.
Second: No, Germany did not collapse. The GDR (German Democratic Republic), more commonly known as Eastern Germany, held free elections after the demise of the USSR and opted to join Western Germany to create the state of Germany to be found today.
Third: Do you seriously think that your country, who embraces personal, aswell as religious and political freedom as their highest ideals, would have allied itself with a facist, anti-semitic and dictatorial government ?

1. Anti-Revisionist communism failed, not communism itself
2. No comment
3. The US has before and probably will again. Hell, they've installed dictators before.

**Flankergeek** · October 2nd, 04:52 PM

well here comes my first essay on German History. I've decided to start with a brief introduction to Imperial Germany 1871-1914. It is necessary to understand the German ntional mindset and tradition in this period to understand the course of history fomr 1919 to 1945.

So here goes....

Germany became a nation in 1871 at the conclusion of the Franco-Prussian War. Over the previous decade, under the direction of Otto von Bismark, Prussia had conquered to neiboring states which had previosly been independant of each other, all with it's own laws and systems of government, often presided over by a prince or some other monarchistic system.

After the unification by conquest, Germany embarked on a rapid exspansion of it's industrial capacity, military might and overseas empire. This policy was known as Weltpolitik or World Politics. It's aim was to establish Germany as an Imperial power to rival Britain and the other colonial nations. The unification of germany can be decribed mor as a series of succesful military conquests than a gentle political union. There was rapid change at the hand of a fantistically successful mi;itary. It was from the fire of it's creation that the key german values of the period: Strong leadership, Independence and a pround and glorious Army, were forged.

The German political system centred around the Monarchy, the Aristocracy and the Army Officer Corps. The monarch was entrusted with alot of power, he could declare war, pass laws, and basically do whatever he wanted. This was regardless of the ability of the Kaiser. The Kaiser was advised by the most powerful people in the country, mainly army officers and aristocrats.

The atmosphere of Imperial Germany was that of an authoritarian and militaristic state. The country came first, the individual second. Great prestige was attached to the Army and it's members held much political influence. At this point is must point out that many of the Amry officers were of Prussian, aritocratic decent. They were tied to the Aritocrats and the Kaiser. It was about these three power groups which the German people revolved.

There were elements of democracy in German society. The Reichstag was a parlimentary body elected by the people. But they held little power - the Kaiser and Aristocracy sought to deprive them of this since the Reichstag was generally overwhelmingly Left leaning. This makes sense considering that most Germans in this period were simply workers in factory's or on farms.

Before i end this brief introduction I wish to underline this point. German society was VERY fragmented. the rich saw the poor as a threat. the poor hated the rich. the various political parties which represented these groups often had the simple purpose of protectign their interests. his fragmentation which would become even more profound in later years, was a major factor in the disintegration of Democracy in the 20's and the rise of Hitler.

In conclusion, the way in which Germany was unified and the fragmentation of society along, economic, political and religious lines woudl play a key part in the rise of Hitler and the collapse of The Weimar Republic.