in my mind the same thing would happen with the hpa as the co2, you are giving each more room to expand, and even though the co2 does not go through a reg, it still has a somewhat constant output pressure, if you were putting liquid co2 behind the ball then sure but thats not the case, they are both compressed gas behind the ball and having to expand in the barrel, but the barrel design will play into it, larger bore than the short and this could easily be going the other way.
it makes more sence now that you explained it but i see no reason why hpa wouldnt do the same thing
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawdaddy
I'm not going to lie if I were rich and famous I'd be running people over with my car all the damn time.
blue to black dm6
hyper 3
top hat mod
laser eyes
CP flow plug
32 degrees drop forward (yes i like my drop forwards)
cp micro on/off asa
deadly winds 14" fibur barrel with full freak
Dye rotor with speed feed
centerflag 68/4500 with on/off
Unregged CO2 isn't nearly as stable as HPA and even the day just warming up could affect it. Chrono in at 10am with a short barrel and then measure it again with a long barrel at 3pm. Bam! 40 extra fps obviously because of a sniper barrel. HPA just has fewer variables that affect it and that is why people love using it so much. You'd still get the increased velocity but the HPA would be entering at around 800psi every time so there is a limit to how much farther the ball would go which is all the "snipers" care about so HPA sucks. Under the right conditions CO2 could easily jump up well over that giving each shot that much more "range" and being the superior choice for snipers everywhere. At a real field this is all moot anyway 25" barrel or 8" barrel everyone is supposed to be under the limit anyway right?
yes but we are talking about chronoing the 8" then throwing on the longer sniper barrel, not a difference through the day. i totally agree with you there and have seen it happen, but if you have an 8" J&J with a .689 bore and a 20" J&J with a .689 bore and you chrono the 8" to 260 on co2 then throw the 20" on and its at 300, then repeate with HPA i dont see there being any difference, the same physics apply since its gas either way
basically im saying consistancy and temperature issues aside i dont see anything different happening from a co2 or hpa difference and changing a barrel size
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawdaddy
I'm not going to lie if I were rich and famous I'd be running people over with my car all the damn time.
blue to black dm6
hyper 3
top hat mod
laser eyes
CP flow plug
32 degrees drop forward (yes i like my drop forwards)
cp micro on/off asa
deadly winds 14" fibur barrel with full freak
Dye rotor with speed feed
centerflag 68/4500 with on/off
lol ya, i get really amused at these threads just from all the ignorant statements
maybe we should compile them together
1) you can not use a speedball marker in the woods because you will loose, however, why you will loose is never explained
2) uber long barrels make for great distance and accuracy
3) scopes are the cats pajamas for a woodsball sniper
4) for some reason co2 and a longer barrel gives you an extra 40fps, but hpa on the setup has no effect
5) electronics in the woods break, even though many speedball fields are much more dirty and messed up than the woods corses
6) use any paint you want, a sniper setup will give you magic accuracy with the worst paint
any more?
so you don't understand the concept that CO2 is a liquid and needs to expand? A longer barrel will up your velocity with CO2 only. Do some reading before you call a statement ignorant skippy
so you don't understand the concept that CO2 is a liquid and needs to expand? A longer barrel will up your velocity with CO2 only. Do some reading before you call a statement ignorant skippy
I REALLY hate defending Trbo, but, if your CO2 is expanding from a liquid to a gas in your barrel, you have a problem with your marker, and should probably be heading to the shop to pick up some o-rings.
I REALLY hate defending Trbo, but, if your CO2 is expanding from a liquid to a gas in your barrel, you have a problem with your marker, and should probably be heading to the shop to pick up some o-rings.
No, its not striaght out liquid when its coming out of the barrel....
It doesn't matter because you should be playing at a set velocity anyway. If you have a long barrel it should be under 300fps and if you have a short barrel it should be under 300fps. The velocity determines the range so who gives a crap if you get a few more fps with one barrel vs another?
People, just remember, the scope isn't an actual scope, its a red dot. A red-dot just allows you to aim on targets faster. As far as the gun goes, I think it looks great. The only part i'm not in to is the expansion chamber. I would have kept the stock steel hose. So 9/10 for me
yes but we are talking about chronoing the 8" then throwing on the longer sniper barrel, not a difference through the day. i totally agree with you there and have seen it happen, but if you have an 8" J&J with a .689 bore and a 20" J&J with a .689 bore and you chrono the 8" to 260 on co2 then throw the 20" on and its at 300, then repeate with HPA i dont see there being any difference, the same physics apply since its gas either way
basically im saying consistancy and temperature issues aside i dont see anything different happening from a co2 or hpa difference and changing a barrel size
Where the difference lies is that Co2 when it is in the tank is a liquid..why do you think that co2 tanks are measured by ounces not Ci? HPA is NEVER a liquid. Co2 starts to change state in the tank but doesn't fully develop its gaseous state untill much further in the gun itself... why do you think they sell expansion chambers and anti-syphon kits. It is to help minimize the amount of liquid co2 that gets introduced to the gun. With hpa as soon as it comes out of the tank is already at the final pressure it is going to reach. So take a tippman 98 no regs of any kind on the marker at all. you take the stock barrel and fire a ball. The Co2 in most cases will not have completely changed into a gas by the time it leaves the power tube. Ever see frost shoot out of a marker using co2? This is why you see that. That is also the reason you see response trigger air fittings freeze up after constant use. The frost occurs due to the state change from a liquid to a gas. I really am not trying to be a butthole about this. I was stating a proven fact and got called ignorant.. thats why I got miffed... lol
hey rugar, how about actually reading and understanding next time before jumping to conclusions, if i didnt know co2 was stored as a liqued how would i possibly make this statement?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trbo323
if you were putting liquid co2 behind the ball then sure but thats not the case,
everything above was with abnormal conditions aside and idk why people keep saying "ya but it could still happen if" no, no if, and ill admit it if im wrong but nobody has shown me that without some outside condition like the tank warming up throughout the day
the "they are both a gas behind the paintball" statement is the normal condition, even if there is some liquid co2 in there it is a very small amount, you cant fire the marker on liquid alone
so yes i stand by my statement that it is an ignorant statement to say you will only see a 40fps increase with co2 and not HPA, that is taking abnormal conditions into play such as the tank warming up
and idk why but it seems a few of you are thinking that when we are saying "expand in the barrel" we are talking about liquid co2 in there, that is not the case, if it was we could not be saying the same thing for HPA. when 2.0 and i are saying "expand in the barrel" we are talking about the gas (co2 or hpa) going from a higher psi to a lower psi as it travels down the barrel. basically the longer the barrel is the more time the gas has to push on the paintball before it is vented out the porting
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawdaddy
I'm not going to lie if I were rich and famous I'd be running people over with my car all the damn time.
blue to black dm6
hyper 3
top hat mod
laser eyes
CP flow plug
32 degrees drop forward (yes i like my drop forwards)
cp micro on/off asa
deadly winds 14" fibur barrel with full freak
Dye rotor with speed feed
centerflag 68/4500 with on/off
wow, i cant tell if that was supposed to be a question or an attempt at an insult or....well something else
like i said, ill admit if im wrong, so if you still feel your correct please explain to me withought any outside conditions how you will see a fps increase using co2 when the only difference is the barrel length and then how you will not see the same increase with hpa when the only difference is the barrel length
edit: i missed this the first time around
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruger
So take a tippman 98 no regs of any kind on the marker at all. you take the stock barrel and fire a ball. The Co2 in most cases will not have completely changed into a gas by the time it leaves the power tube. Ever see frost shoot out of a marker using co2? This is why you see that.
this is wrong, the fog you see is not co2 it is moisture from the surounding air, on a humid enoufgh day you can see the same thing happen with hpa, the difference is because the co2 gas is already cold when it comes out the air around it is cooled rapidly, this forces the water molecules to cling together and become visible, once the air mixes around a bit the water molocules can be absorbed into the surrounding air and are nolonger visible, basically the temperature change loweres the saturation point of the air forcing the water out, once it warms up the saturation point goes back up. if you are at high rates of fire you can cycle some liquid co2 through the marker but thats the snow you see on super cold days, for the most part you will not get any liquid co2 up into the marker, the tank itself is large enoufgh to let it all expand before going into the marker. (yes i know it can siphon) i dont remember the last time i saw someones marker snowing on a normal warm day, o wait! ya he had a rental and was pointing it 45 degrees down, basically making sure it would siphon, but if you fill a zip loc bag with co2 you will not see a fog, its clear just like the air your breathing
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawdaddy
I'm not going to lie if I were rich and famous I'd be running people over with my car all the damn time.
blue to black dm6
hyper 3
top hat mod
laser eyes
CP flow plug
32 degrees drop forward (yes i like my drop forwards)
cp micro on/off asa
deadly winds 14" fibur barrel with full freak
Dye rotor with speed feed
centerflag 68/4500 with on/off
is your skull too thick to comprehend what i am saying.. one more time.. CO2 NEEDS TO FRIGGING EXPAND FROM THE LIQUID STATE TO THE GAS STATE! aLL THINGS BEING EQUAL IF YOU TAKE A MARKER AND PUT A 12 INCH BARREL ON IT AND GET SAY 240 FPS. THEN YOU PUT ON A LONGER BARREL THE VELOCITY CAN INCREASE AS MUCH AS 40 FPS JUST FROM THE BARREL. YOU ARE WRONG.. NO IFS AND OR BUTTS ABOUT IT. SERIOUSLY CALL SMART PARTS... TIPPMAN.. OR ANY OTHER MARKER MAKER AND THEY WILL TELL YOU THE SAME THING. DO I NEED TO MAKE A FREAKING VIDEO JUST TO PROVE TO YOU THAT YOU ARE WRONG? HPA TANKS WORK WITH PURE PRESSURE.. NO EXPANDING IS INVOLVED THATS WHY IT DOES NOT AFFECT VELOCITY WHEN USING HPA.
holy crap, it doesnt look like he understands that i know how co2 is stored
o and fyi ruger here is something from your own link there
"DIFFERENT BARRELS. Different barrel lengths and interior finishes will give different readings on the same paintmarker. Shorter barrels give lower readings than longer ones. Players could switch barrels after chronographing and change their velocities, this can happen intentionally or out of ignorance. Also if the interior, or bore, of the barrel is smaller than your paint, it will slow the velocity as well (because of increased friction between the barrel and the moving ball). Switching to a barrel which is of a larger bore (but similar outward appearance) will result in a drastic raising of velocity. Sometimes as much as 25 fps."
youll notice that it says nothing about this only happening with co2
o and if i call SP chances are they will direct me to one of their techs to answer the question, and O! what do you know, we have one right here, all im asking you to do is explain to me withought any outside conditions how i will see this fps increase with co2 and not hpa.
markers now a days are not meant to run on liquid co2 (there were some in the past) now a days they are designed assuming the co2 will be a gas coming into the marker(i was under the assumption you knew this as SP has a marker on the market that vents out any liquid co2 that comes into the reg), so assuming that is the case, im still looking for an explanation, if it helps assume the marker has a expantion chanber and the tank has an AS tube.
if your just going to vomit out that im wrong save it, im looking for a logical explanation, and if a tech cant provide one, well thats one reason i never bring my marker in, gennerally i know more about them than the techs do.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawdaddy
I'm not going to lie if I were rich and famous I'd be running people over with my car all the damn time.
blue to black dm6
hyper 3
top hat mod
laser eyes
CP flow plug
32 degrees drop forward (yes i like my drop forwards)
cp micro on/off asa
deadly winds 14" fibur barrel with full freak
Dye rotor with speed feed
centerflag 68/4500 with on/off
your the one saying im wrong afterall, all im asking you to do is give me a logical explanation as to why
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawdaddy
I'm not going to lie if I were rich and famous I'd be running people over with my car all the damn time.
blue to black dm6
hyper 3
top hat mod
laser eyes
CP flow plug
32 degrees drop forward (yes i like my drop forwards)
cp micro on/off asa
deadly winds 14" fibur barrel with full freak
Dye rotor with speed feed
centerflag 68/4500 with on/off
98 Custom Platinum Sniper Marker
