[jnjnfl]

Could someone please explain the difference in blowback and blow forward guns? And open bolt and closed bolt? Also, exapmles of types of guns that are each? Thank you.

[ToridXFast]

spyders are stacked tube blowbacks, the gas cause the bolt to recock itself.Blow forward is like timmies or any electropneumatic guns, use air to move bolt forward and back, Open bolt it like spyders and timmies, closed bolt it cocker type guns, closed bolt is supposed to be more accurate than open bolt

[HP_lovecraft]

Not exactly accurate.
These terms you see are simple ways to describe how the paintball gun functions by using existing firearms notation.

In general:
"Open" and "Closed" bolt refer to the positon of the bolt when the gun is "ready to fire". In general, closed-bolt guns are more complicated, and shoot much slower, but some people admire the complexity.
OPEN: Spyders, Timmies, and Tippmans.
CLOSED: Cockers, Excals

The actual method of operation can be divided into 2 MAIN groups: POPPET and SPOOLER-based:

POPPET-based guns are derived from old BB-gun designs. The 3 original designs are: Sheridan, Daisy and Crosman. The difference between designs is simply the position of the parts. Otherwise, they all function the same: They all use hammers to HIT a pin-valve.
Sheridan: Spyder, Cocker, and Timmy
Crosman: Tippmanns, older Brass Eagles
Daisy: Most pumps.

Within poppet-valve guns, are 3 main types: Blowback, Autococking, and Ramvalve.
Blowbacks divert energy directly from the poppet-valve to recock and a spring to HIT.
Ramvalves use energy from a pneumatic ram to both HIT and RECOCK
Autococking guns used a ram to recock, but a spring to HIT.
Blowback: Tippmanns, spyders
Ramvalve: Timmy, angel, Impulse
Autococking: Cocker, Blazer

The other valve type is SPOOLER. These types have no hammer. Instead, they use a specially designed valve to "spool" air from a special chamber behind the ball. This is accomplished a number of ways. The primary difference is in HOW the spool is operated. The main types of Blow-forward, and Ram-spooler.
Blow-Forward: Mag, Equalizer, Armson
Ram-spooler: Matrix, SHocker03, Freestyle.

Another style is mechanical or electro.

Of the 6 characteristics: "OPEN/CLOSED", "POPPET/SPOOLER", "CROSMAN/DAISY/SHERIDAN", etc all are mostly interchangable.

nick

[BloatedGoat]

Isn't the ion a blowforward? Not a ramvalve?

[HP_lovecraft]

Originally Posted by BloatedGoat

Isn't the ion a blowforward? Not a ramvalve?

Thats correct. I mixed up the ION with the other gun SP just released.

Nick

[BloatedGoat]

Originally Posted by HP_lovecraft

Thats correct. I mixed up the ION with the other gun SP just released.

Nick

What gun is that?

[bobide]

i think he means the dmc by dye. It's okay nick, u can't get them all right.

[HP_lovecraft]

Originally Posted by bobide

i think he means the dmc by dye. It's okay nick, u can't get them all right.

No, I was thinking of the Nerve.
It ended up being one of the biggest flops in paintball history.

-Nick

[Brockocoli]

wasn't the nerve supposed to be the best of the impulse and the best of the 03 shocker combined? then they overpriced it...good idea bad way of doing it.

[HP_lovecraft]

Originally, they hyped the fact that it was going to have a computer-controlled regulator, and some sort of onboard FPS sensor, so the gun could automatically compensate for variations in pressure (from temp, rapid-fire, whatever), for the goal of having super consistent FPS spread.

A noble goal. All this was going to justify the outragous $1500 price. It was going to be the "high end" gun, while the Shocker03 was going to be the "low end".

But none of those "high tech" features actually worked, and it ended up being a Impulse with a new name.

Similar situation for the SHocker03. It was originall closed-bolt, and they hyped that fact to death. But the technology didn't work, and they changed the design at the last second. Fortunetly, it was priced low enough that it still managed to generate interested.

Smart Parts is not totally to blame. They did not design ANY of there guns. All designs came from outside companies and were BOUGHT from Smart Parts. Working or not.

Nick

[Brockocoli]

well if they or anyone else were to do what was planned for the nerve...it would be very, very lucrative for them. Well, not many people are too upset with their SP guns so they must have made, er...bought, something right...

[HP_lovecraft]

I definetly do NOT agree with there business practices, but all the products they distribute are all pretty good. They are guilty of overhyping there products, but most companies do that anyway. Nothing new!

I do know that they had to re-morgage there business in 2002 to pay off some massive debt. The "old" Shocker was dead by then, and the Imp was never as popular as the competition. SP was in serious trouble, and there was many delays in the Shocker03.
But now that the ION is super-popular, they seem to have the rough times behind them. Early IONs have some defects, but newer versions seem to be well worth the $300.

Nick

[swimerboystofas]

what type of bolt is a '04 b2k?

[DayoftheGreek]

wow...lovecraft is amazing as always.

That post rocked. It cleared up some stuff for me as well such as spool valves. Any chance on getting diagrams on how they work, gif style? that would be hot... paintball gun operation is facinating.

[zellthemedic]

DayoftheGreek, I hate you.

I don't even know you and I hate you.

[HP_lovecraft]

Originally Posted by DayoftheGreek

Any chance on getting diagrams on how they work, gif style? that would be hot... paintball gun operation is facinating.

This is the best example I have seen for inline spool-valves:



This particular animation is for the Matrix. The Shocker and ION work identical.
Other spoolers lik Automags, Freestyles and the Assault-80 are similar, but the principle parts are in different places.

Essentially, all spoolers have -2- valves.
The first valve controls air FROM the REG into the DUMP-CHAMBER, and the second valve controls air FROM the DUMP-CHAMBEr into the bolt.

Older spoolers like the "old" Shocker did this with 2 rams, but most newer spoolers use a single ram to control both valves. Automags are different in that they do not use a ram, but control valves mechanically.

nick

[Brockocoli]

wow...so where in that animation is the "dump chamber"

[zellthemedic]

Ahhh, that animation is the side of it. I thought it was the top. :P

[HP_lovecraft]

Originally Posted by Brockocoli

wow...so where in that animation is the "dump chamber"

Here:


All spoolers have some sort of dump-chamber.

You can see how it grabs a "chunk" of air from the reg. Stores it in the "dump", then dumps it into the bolt.

-Nick