[RoninNYC]

I was thinking about guns, and besides the main difference between mech or electropneumatic I couldn't really think of major differences in performance (im still pretty new) So for example, what exactly is the difference between the ion and the shocker?

i mean, the only things i can think of are:
1) rate of fire - shocker is faster, but arent tourneys capped at 15bps anyway?
2) efficiency - ok fine, but not really worth the extra money, and plus you can just get a new reg + qev right?
3) accuracy - stock barrel on shocker is probably better, but you can up the barrel so that's not really and issue.

so where is the major differences that make the gun so much betteR? is it just that it performs better out of the box? because cant you upgrade an ion (ie: shocker trigger is better, so buy a new ion trigger etc.) to perform like a shocker? in which case isnt a shocker just an upped ion?

[txaggie08]

Alot of it is a legitamate image issue. People LOATHE the ion because it has in fact proven itself to be a very good gun at a fraction of the cost.

Paintball revolves around the concept of diminishing returns. With the shocker, and most other "high" end guns, you paying for cosmetics, name, and ego boosters. These guns performance increases aare nto worth the extra 600 dollars the way the extra performance from the 100 more the ion cost over an e-spyder is, its an image thing.

[paintballin34]

Is there a quality issue? Such as on the internals and the frame? The Ion frame isn't anything to write home about. I wonder if the Shocker grip frame is of better quality?

[FadeToBlack87]

smart parts section much, the shockers board is capped higher than the ions and the shocker comes with alot more features stock than the ion.

They are both electropnuematic if thats what your asking. The shocker is a spool valve and the ion is a blowforward if im not mistaken.

[txaggie08]

i thought both were spool valve...

[FadeToBlack87]

idk i heard the ion is a blowforward which is a variant of spool so i guess that counts as spool valve


here you go here are some animations on how they work

http://www.paintballforum.com/forum/...94#post1600694

[coolborder]

With paintball what you pay isn't always what you get. Take this for example the difference from a Tippmann 98 Custom out of the box compared to a Shocker is enourmous. The Shocker is obviously much lighter, faster, smaller, more technologically advanced, double trigger, ect. and with all these features you can almost justify the price difference of about $470. BUT compare the Shocker and say a DM6 and there aren't that many more features that the DM6 has over the Shocker. Don't get me wrong it is the better marker but is it worth about $500 more for those extra features?

[FadeToBlack87]

this thread is comparing ion vs shocker

but he has a point...

[bobide]

okay we'll use your ion-shocker comparision.

just what exactly is the extra money getting you?

Almost always a better platform. What I mean is the gun runs better, it may be faster, have better efficancy, have less kick, run at a lower pressure, etc. Out of the box the shocker will be faster, have less kick thanks to lighter parts/better designed internals, get better efficancy (since HE bolt is stock now i beleive) Yes the ion has potential but out of the box it's a caged beast.

Then features. Shockers come w/ dynasty boards that have many modes and all the adjustables. An ion has its stock board with a 17bps cap in place and just a handfull of modes. The shocker has the suppossedly superior max-flo reg while the ion gets the cheaper reg.

Build quality and milling are also factors. The shocker is annodized completely not powdercoated like the ion is in places. This gives a better look, it's purely cosmetic. Also the shocker has CNC milling all over it giving it a light weigh and a pretty look. While the ion has that plastic body. However it becomes most noticable if you look at the shockers internals. The noid is covered, not exposed like the ion. Things are easier to get to and work on.

cool border makes a good point. The higher up the tree you go the smaller and smaller the increase in preformance is.

[txaggie08]

Wch is also called the law of diminishing returns......

[bobide]

shorten your goddamn signature please.

[Vicious49]

Originally Posted by coolborder

With paintball what you pay isn't always what you get. Take this for example the difference from a Tippmann 98 Custom out of the box compared to a Shocker is enourmous. The Shocker is obviously much lighter, faster, smaller, more technologically advanced, double trigger, ect. and with all these features you can almost justify the price difference of about $470.

But what if you upgrade your Tippmann. If you get the Custom Pro, it comes with the double trigger and drop forward out of the box.I just bought a J&J ceramic barrel, a titanium hammer, and a hyperstar bolt. I'm holding off on the response trigger for now (not sure how much longer I cna hold out), but i've seen it and it is pretty badass if installed properly. So that's less than say $200 in upgrades which is still $270 less than the shocker. The Tippmann will still be much heavier of course, but aside from that, how does it compare now?

[martix_agent]

Originally Posted by Vicious49

But what if you upgrade your Tippmann. If you get the Custom Pro, it comes with the double trigger and drop forward out of the box.I just bought a J&J ceramic barrel, a titanium hammer, and a hyperstar bolt. I'm holding off on the response trigger for now (not sure how much longer I cna hold out), but i've seen it and it is pretty badass if installed properly. So that's less than say $200 in upgrades which is still $270 less than the shocker. The Tippmann will still be much heavier of course, but aside from that, how does it compare now?

If i was going to upgrade anything on a tippman I'd pick up one of those new e-triggers. Those things riiiip and that's a fact.

now about comparing an upped tippman to an upped shocker. first of all tippmans are heavy and long. That's no good if you're playing speedball because you don't be able to play tight like you can with a shocker. Tippmans also have the hopper sticking off the side instead of on top of the body. that's anoher thing that won't let you play tight, you can't stick out the right side cuz your hopper pokes out further than you marker. I think another thing to worry about is kick, tippmans don't have much kick(i assume it's cuz theyre heavy) but what would happen if you're shooting a tippman at 15bps? a shocker does have a tiny bit of kick but nothing like a tippman would.

so lets recap our differences

tippman long, heavy. Shocker light and small
tippman side hopper. Shocker Top hopper
tippman has kick Shocker has less kick
tippman is a gas hog. Shockers are very economical on air.
tippman board has few modes. Shocker board has just about any mode you afd could ever want.

[Vicious49]

Originally Posted by martix_agent

If i was going to upgrade anything on a tippman I'd pick up one of those new e-triggers. Those things riiiip and that's a fact.

now about comparing an upped tippman to an upped shocker. first of all tippmans are heavy and long. That's no good if you're playing speedball because you don't be able to play tight like you can with a shocker. Tippmans also have the hopper sticking off the side instead of on top of the body. that's anoher thing that won't let you play tight, you can't stick out the right side cuz your hopper pokes out further than you marker. I think another thing to worry about is kick, tippmans don't have much kick(i assume it's cuz theyre heavy) but what would happen if you're shooting a tippman at 15bps? a shocker does have a tiny bit of kick but nothing like a tippman would.

The titanium hammer is supposed to help with the kick alot - which is why I got one. So that should negate that difference. Can't do much about the size and the weight.

Also, you're comparing strictly for speedball. What about for woodsball (which is what I'm primarily doing). That's the reason I'm going with the response trigger over the e-trigger - there's no electronic parts in there that could get wet. But that RT might as well be an automatic. If you haven't seen one, you should - you'd be surprised.

[SharpShooter76]

Im thinking about a RT for my 98c also. Yes, in speedball a shocker would rape a tippmann because of what its made for.

[PurEOwnagE]

My input on the Ion v Shocker.

Ion with QEV and Board and Reg = about 400.
That will perform like a shocker.
Shocker + Bolt Kit = About 685. That will perform like the Ion.

In a tournament capped at 15 bps they will perform the same.

Then theres the shocker being lighter. But the Ion being more upgradeable.
The Ion being cheaper. The Shocker being more expensive.
The Shocker comes better stock. The Ion doesn't.

Then it comes down to how the guns feel in your hand. Which is personal preference.

[martix_agent]

Originally Posted by Vicious49

The titanium hammer is supposed to help with the kick alot - which is why I got one. So that should negate that difference. Can't do much about the size and the weight.

Also, you're comparing strictly for speedball. What about for woodsball (which is what I'm primarily doing). That's the reason I'm going with the response trigger over the e-trigger - there's no electronic parts in there that could get wet. But that RT might as well be an automatic. If you haven't seen one, you should - you'd be surprised.

oh your talking woodsball? then by all means get the RT. I'm very much impressed by them. However i see it as cheating in a way because it is (as you said) basically automatic. You could also look into getting something like a mag for woodsball. they're nearly indestructible and weigh less and are smaller.

[Vicious49]

Originally Posted by martix_agent

oh your talking woodsball? then by all means get the RT. I'm very much impressed by them. However i see it as cheating in a way because it is (as you said) basically automatic.

Yeah it is kinda cheating. I wouldn't normally use the RT much, but I would like to have the option in case some jerk on the other team decides to play with an automatic. Kinda like how even though your car has 250 hp, you don't need to have all that power. But it's nice to have in case you have to pass someone.

[CarnageCAB]

not always about the gun. its the player. but yeah differences in gun are consistency, accuracy, speed, weight, options of play, air convenience, and preference of look and feel