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**kenny_1491** · January 16th, 09:52 PM

nah I was kidding, but hell that is a good deal. I wish I had friends like that.

***sparktite*** · January 16th, 10:25 PM

yeah i do too lmao

***YouCantSeeMee*** · January 17th, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sNoW PIrAnHa

A steel tank of that size is a very bad idea. I can't even begin to imagine how heavy it would be. The ion isn't that bad of a gun, just really hard to tech. All you really need to get going is a feedneck and barrel. The PMR is still better than the ion though.

Yes, they are VERY heavy. I thought I stated that, but I guess I didn't.

The only reason that I mentioned that tank is because he only has $200-$250 to spend on what I thought to be an ENTIRE setup (marker, loader, and tank). While stell hpa tanks (of any size) are extremely heavy, they are cheap.

As for the marker choices, either go with the VS2, the PMR, the SLG, or maybe, MAYBE a used Epiphany. I would use the Epiphany as a last resort though, seeing as it is basically a metal Ion.

**kenny_1491** · January 17th, 02:05 PM

actually from my inspections of mine, they have plenty of differences. but yes the Epiphany is based offa the ion marker.

***sparktite*** · January 17th, 07:40 PM

yeah we were gona stick to epiphany, and as i said i and alot fo ppl ive talked to believe the slg is much better than the pmr

and he had 200-250 to spend on marker alone

**kenny_1491** · January 17th, 07:50 PM

the slg is a simplified PMR basically, it has a different bolt design and trigger to my knowledge, oh and the hyper 3. on second thought I'd get the SLG.

**txaggie08** · January 17th, 08:54 PM

Actually the SLG is a good bit different than the PMR/PMX(pm6,7, or the DM's)

It's actually in the automag family, in that it's a blow forward design. Think a spring return spool valve. It's kind of like a fasor version of a spooler. There's nothing wrong with the design, in fact the parts are probably more DURABLE, and most definitely cheaper and simple to work on than your typical air driven system, as there is no LP regulator required, nor is there a need for a 60$ 4 way gas through noid, but uses a 20 dollar or less pancake noid....

Now, for my opinion on the matter. I lean towards the SLG. I think it is the best of both worlds for a beginner, in that it is not complicated, should(unless dye has seriously messed up, and I haven't heard a thing about it yet...) be considerably more durable than a spooler in the hands of a beginner. At the same time, it's a small/compact/and fast marker with (reportedly) little to no kick.

I'm willing to bet they will run on CO2 well as well, as there is no solenoid to destroy. Many of the mag community have compared them favorably, and you do not hear that often...

**kenny_1491** · January 17th, 08:59 PM

hmm I never really thought about it like that, I just figured it was a PMR with a mech noid. idk it had a spring return in it.

**txaggie08** · January 17th, 09:35 PM

It may not be spring operated but I'm almost positive it is... hang on I'll find a picture.

**txaggie08** · January 17th, 09:39 PM

Hey whadda you know I misunderstood. It is in fact air return, essentially removing the bolt spring assemble that the mag uses....

Learn something new everyday.

Looking at the youtube videos, it's a very interesting concept to say the least. It could be mad mech as well...

**kenny_1491** · January 18th, 01:00 PM

I didn't think it was.either way it is new and untouched spool technology, how lnog before SP sues? they waited a year on Invert.

**txaggie08** · January 18th, 01:03 PM

They can go ahead and try all they want to. They don't want to get in on tom kaye and the blow forward technology(which, incidentally, is why I don't think dye has gone after KEE for the mini...) fight. I would say prior art would be an understatement.....

**kenny_1491** · January 18th, 01:05 PM

lol yeah, SP has definitely bitten off more then it can chew. and what could dye go after on the mini? I didn't know DYE had any patents that were similar to the mini.

**txaggie08** · January 18th, 01:16 PM

Dye owns the spool valve patent....not smart parts. You've never heard that? That's why smart parts came to an "understanding" with dye. In '04, when the bulk of the C&D letters went out, dye received one and sent a compliance letter of it's own to stop production of the shocker, as it was based on THERE patent. Thus the uh....arrangement. That was also the reason the nerve continued production until not long ago, there was serious talk about discontinuing the shocker(as I've heard anyway) and promoting a newer stack tubed poppet design based of the nerve technology(ever notice that the nerve uses ALOT of shocker parts.....). It looks like they've decided not to bite on that one(they can produce the ions so much cheaper it's not worth it), but if we ever see SP come out with a new "high end" poppet design, and the matching low end version(ala a poppet ion)......I guarantee you the SP-dye battle royal is fixing to take off.

**kenny_1491** · January 18th, 01:30 PM

I knew they had patents on there specific spool design, but not the whole design entirely. wow, this is gonna be interesting. I did wonder why the nerve & shocker shared parts. either way DYE is def. gonna come out on top if push comes to shove.

***martix_agent*** · January 18th, 01:32 PM

If dye takes sp out I will worship the ground they walk on

**kenny_1491** · January 18th, 01:41 PM

they still rein as my favorite company, then mac dev.

**txaggie08** · January 18th, 01:46 PM

I'll buy one of there markers new the day the where to do it.

Now, atm, I couldn't see it happening. BUT, if the newest generation of ions are as poorly built as the batch from last year, and the SLG is as tough and easy to work on as it's supposed to be, we might see something funny happen.

Smart parts has gotten WAAY behind the times on guns. They still believe in the same mantra they did with the impulse, sell a gun that NEEDS upgrades to perform to any standard at all. They did it with The impulse, the first gen sft shockers(no HE bolt and the option of no eye, plus a piss poor barrel, reg, and feedneck),and they've done it with the ion as well. D

ye on the other hand, puts out a gun like the slg, aimed at it's lowest level customers(proto and dye are part of the same company, with dye being the controlling section), and puts serviceable parts on it from the very beginning. I doubt very seriously upgrade parts will be released for the gun internally, as they put the better technology in the gun to start with. The accoutrement's aren't great, but the feedneck, looking at it, seems to be a decent lo-rise press neck, and the ASA is decent(saw one that came off an SLG last weekend), and at the very least is a modern style that doesn't need to be upgraded quickly for any form of serious play. the barrel is the same one included with the PM if I'm not mistaken, and is generally a nice barrel.

As I said the other day, the ion was built to fill a niche that has ceased to exist. Maybe, with enough counter propaganda, SP's sales will slump off enough that they will bring the ion into the current area(or they will stop production). I just wish kids would think before they buy, and not assume because it's a big name company, the marketing claims are right on the money...

**kenny_1491** · January 18th, 01:54 PM

yeah I agree with you on that. the SLG comes with a proto 1 piece, as well as the PMR. the pm5,6,7,8's come with a proto 2-piece. I have used both and both are definitely up to par with the CP one piece, oldschool UL, and most barrels in the 60-70 dollar range(the only barrel that just couldn't be touched in that range was the Lucky uni1tech, which I need ot get from my friend in NC now that i thin kabout it lol).