brand new, looking at mil-sim - Paintball Forum - Paintball guns and gear forums
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Old November 13th, 2012, 09:48 AM   #1 (permalink)
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brand new, looking at mil-sim

Hello, I am brand new to paintball. I am prior service and have been asked to join a few teams. I am looking at buying mag fed markers. Rap4 and milsling. They play sinereo ball and Woods ball. Any feedback would be greatful
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Old November 13th, 2012, 10:10 AM   #2 (permalink)
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my feedback is, dont get a mag fed marker

they are extremely over priced for what they are

new player getting into the sport, you should worry about getting something that is functional and easy to work on, 2 things that a mag fed marker is rarely good at.

read through the link in my sig, it will really help you get started
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Old November 13th, 2012, 10:20 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Thank you for the link and info. The tm7 and the tm15 caught my eye. Price really isn't an issue, I have sponsors if I decide to do this
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Old November 13th, 2012, 02:05 PM   #4 (permalink)
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stay far away from rap4. they make poor quality things that hardly ever work the way they're supposed to.

the tm15 isn't bad I suppose; I don't remember hearing bad things about it anyhow.

the DAM just came out as well, and it's about the best mag fed thing since sliced bread. If money is not option, get that.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 02:33 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Strict Opinion -

Before deciding to embark on a journey where you'll be paying more for looks than performance - you should first look into something that's going to be cost effective, reliable, and offer more versatility.

Spider Fenix
68/45
Halo Too
Nice Thermal Mask.


Stepping straight into milsim as a someone new to the sport is going to result in a lot of heartache and empty pocketbooks. Milsim stuff is expensive. The best current manufactured marker (excluding the DAM) is a mid-ranged air rammed poppet. Yes, it does the same thing as any other mid-ranged marker..but looking at a $482 price tag for something you can get in a smaller package for $300 (invert Mini) makes me want to throw up.

Accessories,scopes, red dots, leds, flash lights, etc. are all just bolt-on cool in this sport, and provide little if any benefit to the user. Not only are you only making your marker heavier, you're reducing its use and your own reaction times due to having to lug around a 15 pound weight that could and has weighed as little as 6 pounds and performs the same function.


If you're bent on MilSim, you'll remain bent on MilSim. The need for a Backup marker, and knowing your was not only affordable, but reliable? - is worth its weight in gold...especially when you blow $700 on a setup, play 3-4 games - only to find out your marker isn't behaving...and you either have to go home or spend time teching it. Get something reliable first - make sure you want to pursue this MilSim path. Get better at repairing/fixing/maintaining the thing, and then advance in the discipline you wish to pursue.

I'm going to go out on a limb here -

You can take anything you see in common use on an airball field...spray paint it (or purchase it in) Green/black... and play with it in the woods without receiving criticism. They work equally as well on an airball field as they will a woodsball field.

You can't take what's characterized as a "woodsball" or Milsim-esque marker and expect it to perform as well or have as much utility on an airball field. The length, weight, and bolt-on "upgrades" make it more difficult to play - if they even allow you to do so. (a T98c w/ a 22 inch barrel and a 20oz CO2 is about 40" long

Again - my opinion - but you should pick up one of them spyder Fenix things... play for a few months, buy a few cases of paint, play til next season...and then decide if you want to pay for looks...or if you don't mind playing an Etek4 in digi-camo because of the advantages it offers...or hell.. maybe you find out that airball is your game...

Leave yourself options


/end rant
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Old November 13th, 2012, 04:48 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Wow thank you for saving me big bucks. I have been offered a tippman a5 pretty cheap. I take it they are dependable. Doesnt come with air or anything. Yes i do realize now that these markers are no where near as accurate as a real m4 so need for aimpoints or all that crazyness. Flashlight yea mabye. I am very greatful for your imput.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 04:55 PM   #7 (permalink)
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They're good, but i'm not a fan of the cycle hopper at all. it blends brittle paint.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 06:10 PM   #8 (permalink)
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IMO, you'd be better off with a Spyder or an Azodin. Why a flashlight, do you plan on playing at night? If you read Trbo's signature, you'll realize how different paintball markers are than real weapons...
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Old November 13th, 2012, 07:10 PM   #9 (permalink)
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dude for the price your gonna pay for the tm15 just get a rail, aura, mini or even an etek they will kick the tm15 up and down the street in every way shape or fashion
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Old November 14th, 2012, 09:50 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I have taken all your comments in and started my research. There is a ton of markers out there. As for the flashlight, yes the teams that are asking me to join do whole weekend games. The rest of the accessories are just window dressing. when I first started l started looking into this I wanted a market that looked realistic and was decently accurate. As I am finding out kinda hard to get. From all I have read, it seems to start out with a Tippman or similar than upgrade from there. .
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Old November 14th, 2012, 10:05 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by anothernewby View Post
I have taken all your comments in and started my research. There is a ton of markers out there. As for the flashlight, yes the teams that are asking me to join do whole weekend games. The rest of the accessories are just window dressing. when I first started l started looking into this I wanted a market that looked realistic and was decently accurate. As I am finding out kinda hard to get. From all I have read, it seems to start out with a Tippman or similar than upgrade from there. .
Keep this in mind -

The reason you see law enforcement crossing a flashlight over their firearm, is so their foe doesn't have a dead-ringer location to target and shoot. In the event that they do shoot for the light, odds are they're going to hit a non-critical body area. Can't...say as much when you're sighting down the barrel of a marker with a flash light attached to one of the rails. Seems...pretty dead ringer...of a way to take a hit to a critical body area.

Attaching a flash light to your marker will give your foe a ..fixed..location to target and shoot that will result in an elimination. So...are you providing function to your marker? Or are you theoretically wearing a glow-in-the-dark target on your marker/back?
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Old November 14th, 2012, 01:45 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dprimmy View Post
The reason you see law enforcement crossing a flashlight over their firearm, is so their foe doesn't have a dead-ringer location to target and shoot.
Really? I thought its because its hard to hold a gun in one hand and keep it steady.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 01:54 PM   #13 (permalink)
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that might have something to do with it - but in talking with a cop locally and asking why -


A light, anywhere, especially if its shining at you - is going to blind you from everything in a conical section originating from the light source, especially in the short term. Since you know the light is being used to look around, you shoot the light...you shoot the cop, right?


But - if you offset the light source, you still exist behind the light cone, you can still sight down your firearm, but you're not as obvious of a target.


Sooo.. what did we learn here today children??!?

If you ever have a need to discharge a firearm in the direction of a light source - and 90% of the world is right handed...aim high and right.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 03:13 PM   #14 (permalink)
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You got the opinion of the recballers/speedballers, now lets here the opinion of a mil-simmer, me !

I went straight fror looks from the start and I've been happy with it. I've played with guys that have Eteks, Egos, Geos, DMs, Minis etc. and still I prefert to keep up with mil-sim, because that's my thing.
First you have to find out if mil-sim is really your thing and if you want mag-fed. Me for example, I like mil-sim but mag-fed not su much unless is for first strike use, or if everybody is using mag-feds.

What I recommend you to do (mainly because right now I am to lazy to explain) check out a mil-sim forum and see the two points of view. I usually hang out here: MilSim Empire • Portal
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Old November 14th, 2012, 03:34 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Let me give you some feedback on mil-sim companies:

Tippmann / U.S Army Paintball

Solid entry level markers, although disassembling some is a pain. Their markers should last forever with good care. If you keep up with mil-sim almost any marker you buy from them would be your shooting friend for a long time. They mainly focus on the recreational player.

Spyder

Very solid and basic, perfect to start with mil-sim and mag-fed. Cheaper than Tippmann.

RAP4 / Tacamo

Also know as cRAP4, they are infamous for bad quality products but what most people (mainly speedballers) don't know is that since 2010 that changed. Since the T68 Gen6 most owners have claimed to have very solid products, including the mags. Although their markers really are overpriced for what you get.

MIL-SIG

Probably the best mil-sim company right now, they have very similar markers, internally speaking, to a Spyder, but they have more money value than a RAP4 and are made with the best quality controls. Their mags and accesories are also a lot better than those of RAP4.

Tiberius Arms

Best for pistols and "sniper" rifles. They have very good quality products but just go with them if you want to focus on first stirke rounds.

Scarab Arms

New company. Their products focus completeley on making the marker as close to reality as posible. Good quality but maybe overpriced.

Battle Tested

Tippmann's forerunner. Very similar products to Tippmann but with better quality and cheaper. They focus on the recreational and casual player.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 07:28 PM   #16 (permalink)
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tippmann's forerunner? i highly doubt that.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 09:08 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I corrected it, my english failed me a little bit there.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 09:10 PM   #18 (permalink)
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BT was founded by Ben Tippmann who was the lead designer of the 98 and A5 after the Tippmann family sold the business to an investment firm he went his own way. Following a quick lawsuit regarding the confusion of his using the name Tippmann on his product the name went to BT standing for Battle Tested.
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Old November 16th, 2012, 03:08 PM   #19 (permalink)
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alright here is my input on this

and i have one question

if you are new, how on earth do you have a sponsor already?

1) flashlight is a bad idea, even in a night game, if you have it on its just yelling at the other team "HI! IM RIGHT HERE! PLEASE SHOOT ME!"

2) night games are the stupidest idea on the planet, let me sum them up for you....where am i?.....what was that!?!?....OUCH I TRIPPED!...WHO IS SHOOTING AT ME!?!?!....i better shoot back! bang bang bang.....i got him!...oh wait....he got me too.....wait....he is on my team.....now we are both out!.............................................. where was the staging area?

3) even if you have an unlimited budget, a high end or overly complicated marker is a bad idea. just because your 16 year old son can now drive doesnt mean he should be put behind the wheel of a Lamborghini just because he has the money for it. what happens if you get a high end to start is you use it for a while, eventually something breaks or needs adjustment and then A) you dont know how, and also B) repair costs start stacking up because you have to send it into the shop

4) do yourself a favor, get a spyder fenix or azodin blitz. its not like you can not play with these guys just because its labeled as a "milsim" event. there is nothing in the functioning of the marker itself that makes one marker milsim and another one not. basically the "milsim" markers out there are just like all the others but are dressed up and twice as expensive. in reality you have more performance with a marker that is not billed as "milsim"

5)the TM-7 and 15 are mid range markers, and if you did read my guide all the way through you would have seen the part that i said i do not recommend these markers (mid range) for players just getting into the sport. the 7 and 15 are both a mini in a shell, which also means they have all the downfalls of the mini as well. mini just does things....awkwardly which is one of the reasons i sold mine. they are not good markers to learn on because they do things so backwards from the rest of the industry. btw, tm7 and 15 are not mag fed. the mag on those is just cheap plastic that is there for the look.

that aside, when you look at the 7 and 15 compared to what else is out there its a lot like being at mcdonalds and having $50 in your pocket. you look through the whole menu and decide that what you want to do instead is dig though the trash (mil sim markers) and find a half eaten cheeseburger, and then pay double for that. sure, its probably the best thing in the trash but then why limit yourself to that when you could get anything on the menu?

if you really must go milsim at the end of the day, look though the spyder MR series and in specific, the MRX. all the markers will have the advantage of being a spyder on the inside so they are very simple. MRX is both a hopper and mag feed changeable on the fly which is what seems to be hot in milsim right now
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Old November 16th, 2012, 03:15 PM   #20 (permalink)
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2) night games are the stupidest idea on the planet, let me sum them up for you....where am i?.....what was that!?!?....OUCH I TRIPPED!...WHO IS SHOOTING AT ME!?!?!....i better shoot back! bang bang bang.....i got him!...oh wait....he got me too.....wait....he is on my team.....now we are both out!.............................................. where was the staging area?
This is perhaps one of the best representations of a night game that can ever be made.
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