stacked tube spool marker coming soon - Paintball Forum - Paintball guns and gear forums
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 12:40 AM   #1 (permalink)
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stacked tube spool marker coming soon

check it out

New Gun Design: J4 Paintball - mcarterbrown.com

anyone heard of J4 paintball? I never have. i am interested to see this thing though my only question is if it is balanced or unbalanced
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 02:35 AM   #2 (permalink)
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as stated in that thread by someone else, first thing that came to mind with the silhouette was a creed
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 09:01 AM   #3 (permalink)
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It's being made by people who know what they're doing as well. I don't expect this to blow up, but I also don't expect it to tank like the last few new companies who popped up.

They've made a few hints that the LPR is either hidden from sight, or is going to be unnecessary.

Oh and there's a new balanced spool valve that should come out soon. It's being made by a reputable company and is supposed to be priced around $800. I can't tell you anything else.
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 09:07 AM   #4 (permalink)
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First thing for me was an 09 Impulse. Neat how they're doing a stacked spool. I see it being the worst of both worlds though. You've got the upper chamber making the marker taller, but still aren't going to get the kind of efficiency you can get off a full stacked poppet like the G6R. While I'll want to shoot it if it ever comes to light, "meh" is the phrase that mostly comes to mind when I think about it.
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 11:55 AM   #5 (permalink)
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the 2 images they have released are weird, first off they are not the same marker (compare the snatch block and front of the upper tube) and second there are not enough o-ring grooves in the cut away, it would leak like a sieve if that is all there is but that aside, just from that cut out I am not seeing a spool seal anywhere
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 12:18 PM   #6 (permalink)
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As the story goes, those images were released at multiple times in the development. They had to change some things to make it work.

mechanical dwell is another interesting concept.
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 12:23 PM   #7 (permalink)
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ya i like the idea of the hall effects to take over dwell timing. great idea

gas through grip....now I lost about 95% of my interest, no drop forward....
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 12:27 PM   #8 (permalink)
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get over it. it's the future. you want a tight setup? get a smaller tank.
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 02:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
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its not the same

i also hate how everything is becoming "stock parts and stock parts only"

kinda looses some style if you ask me if every single marker is going to end up being the exact same with a different barrel and color
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 05:04 PM   #10 (permalink)
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its not the same

i also hate how everything is becoming "stock parts and stock parts only"

kinda looses some style if you ask me if every single marker is going to end up being the exact same with a different barrel and color
I though you partly hated the Mini for not being stock.
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 08:04 PM   #11 (permalink)
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its not the same

i also hate how everything is becoming "stock parts and stock parts only"

kinda looses some style if you ask me if every single marker is going to end up being the exact same with a different barrel and color
I totally agree. I miss the days of true PL markers and enough aftermarket parts to damn near build a complete marker. Now it's getting to be one size fits all and I feel like you sort of lose part of the experience of playing when your marker isn't so much your marker as it is the marker you bought and are using...if that makes any sense.
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 09:58 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I though you partly hated the Mini for not being stock.
for not being stock? im lost as to what you are getting at

im not a huge fan of how you really can not do a whole lot to it, one of the other reasons i got rid of mine. granted there are a few more parts out there for it today but really, theres not a lot you can do to it so if you look at something like the mini owners club thread, all the photos are the exact same with a different color

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I totally agree. I miss the days of true PL markers and enough aftermarket parts to damn near build a complete marker. Now it's getting to be one size fits all and I feel like you sort of lose part of the experience of playing when your marker isn't so much your marker as it is the marker you bought and are using...if that makes any sense.
ya it does, PL milling is expensive so i feel like that really killed the PL markers not to mention with patents flying around everywhere now a days its probably fairly difficult to produce a PL marker

but really this is one of the reasons besides drops that I am not a fan of all the gas through grip markers, you can not swap around ASAs and regulators anymore and nobody makes aftermarket ones either. If someone came out with a standard design i think that would go a long way towards getting back to this but personally i would rather keep a 6" length of hose rather than loose the ability to swap parts around and adjust things to my own liking

part of me is excited that people are still trying to do something different like J4 seems to be doing but another part of me thinks paintballs hayday is over and in reality markers have gotten so complex that it is making it more and more difficult for aftermarket companies to make any real improvements, gone are the days when $30 could get you some new part to try out, now if you want something better you have to make it yourself
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 10:28 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I have to agree i love a gun that i can change this and tinker with that. I need a new high end gun that has private label bodies, a macro line, and has the ability to change everything on it, and there are multiple aftermarket parts for it that are all different
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 11:44 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I have to agree i love a gun that i can change this and tinker with that. I need a new high end gun that has private label bodies, a macro line, and has the ability to change everything on it, and there are multiple aftermarket parts for it that are all different
You're singing my song...as is everyone else on this forum.

When I stepped back into paintball, I was expecting it to be just as I'd left it. You get a marginal marker for $400-700, and then go out and pick up upgrades and tinker with it until you get a combination of things that make it shoot the way you want it to - at $15-30/upgrade.


When I bought my Etek... I realized there was a Zick2...and a bolt.. and a trigger that's not too much different.

When I got my Reflex Rail - there was a trigger with a slightly different shape...and... a bolt that's said to reduce LPR pressure on an unbalanced spool valve marker.

but alas... gone are the days of independent companies manufacturing 400 different bolts for a poppet valve marker from 6 different materials..all trying to be lighter or more efficient than the last.... Gone are the days of adding up your bottom tube component gram weight to see just how close to the "choice" weight you are.

.... But... we all still look forward to Sunday...and I guess that's all that matters.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 12:32 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Remember the ION? You could do whatever you wanted to it, but it was still an ION. As i recall, you could actually turn them into a pretty decent shooter, if you replaced all the parts on it.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 08:33 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I don't think anyone made aftermarket noids for them, although I might be wrong and am too lazy to check. Other than that, I know everything else had aftermarket parts made.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 08:37 AM   #17 (permalink)
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there were aftermarket boards. The boards had the solenoid built into them
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Old February 4th, 2013, 10:09 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Yeah, but did anyone actually use a DIFFERENT noid? To my knowledge they all used the reference noid, I know Virtue and Ape did.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 05:02 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I had a dynasty one that i got for like $120 in 07 or so. When it worked it was actually quite fun to play with but it was still an ion. I couldnt stand how people would take an ion and put 300 into a 300 dollar gun, but thats my opinion, if i didnt get a good deal on the dynasty i would have never bought one.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 07:08 PM   #20 (permalink)
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With some of the nicer BOB bodies that also had cocker threading, they shot REALLY nice. If I had found one for sale before I got tired of having so many markers, I would have gladly bought one used that had a nice looking cocker breach body, L7 bolt, QEV, decent feedneck and trigger.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 09:30 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Well this is probably just me but, contrary to most of your opinions, I think paintball is trying to evolve rather than devolving. Most of you are long time paintball veterans so all of that complicated stuff I barely understand that you're talking about suits you very well, the problem is that the old experienced players like you are just a few, so something as complicated as all of the aftermarketing you're mentioning is way to much to asimilate for new players so they might prefer to not get into paintball (or at least not that much). So by making things much simpler and more atractive, new players feel more tempted to keep playing rather than quitting after they see how complicated it is. Is all marketing strategies, people always prefer what looks simpler, that's why the Ego and Geo lines are so popular.

Let me give you an example, why most people prefer console gaming (XBox, PlayStation, Nintendo, etc.) over PC gaming when the PC is much more powerfull than any console? Well because when you play with a console you just buy the disc, select "play" in the menu and there you go, and the console just costed you 250-400 dollars. In the case of a PC thing change, you have to install this, uninstall that; hardware this, software that; RAM this, program that, and so and so, and if you don't do it right you might get lag, the resolution might not be optimal, the grpahics may fiel, etc, etc. In the end you get an awesome gaming experience but in the expence of a lot of your time and knowing what to do, and you end up spending more then what the console guy spent (It's crazy how much a PC costs when you want it for gaming, probably not as much as a MAC but still expensive). So we can compare the IT expert guy with a veteran paintball player and we have the same case: Two experts on their field that really know what they're doing with their gear and can have an awesome experience (I'll put price aside since that doesn't really aplly for what you have mentioned, but you get my point). While in the other case we have two guys that just want to have fun that with their really very limited gear they also have lots of fun like the two experts guys.

So we have two diferent people (well four) enjoying the same thing but in diferent levels, the four of them are like cups of water, the experts are like 2 liter cups (I guess that's not a cup anymore but you ge my point)and the other two are like 1/3 liter cups. When they are having fun with wichever their hobbies they all have their cups full, it is true that the experts have more water but the four cups are full. Lets say we remove the water inside the experts cups and fill them with the water isnide the other guys's cups, the cups are obviously not full, which means the experts are unsatisfied, while if you pour the 2 liers cups in the 1/3 liter cups the water will overflow, which means it's to much for the less experienced guys.

I think I over explained what I wanted to say but I wanted to make my point as clear as possible. The problem is that most people are 1/3 liter cups in the industry, overflowing them with 2 liters of water is not wise for it exceeds the customers capacity and it erases his interest. For the companies it's better to leave the 10% of experts unsatisified and the other 90% satisfied, similarly to what Nintendo did with the Wii, all of the "hardcore" gamers (The 2L cup guys that used to follow Nintendo where unsatisfied and switched to other systems, but the company gained enormously more with the market of "casual" players (the 1/3L cup guys, probaly less). Remeber, it's all for the sake of the moneyz .

We all love capitalism (sometimes ).
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Old February 4th, 2013, 09:38 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Old February 4th, 2013, 10:39 PM   #23 (permalink)
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i get what you are saying but there is a problem, you can have both in paintball

you dont HAVE to be the super experienced player if you dont want to, if you just want to be the weekend warrior thats great, there are markers out there that can do that and truth be told the overwhelming majority of markers can do that now a days if that is all you want out of a $1500 marker. but at the same time you also CAN be the super in depth guy with that same marker, heck you can even do that with a $150 spyder if you wanted

to use your computer reference, imagine the computer world was like the paintball world, where your computer minus the screen and input devices would be a single unit. the paintball industry used to be where the PC industry is today, with many many different parts that are all able to work together regardless of who made them. but today the markers are more like apple computers, where you buy the one unit and there are VERY few parts that can be swapped out or changed and if you want anything better or different you will have to buy a whole new unit....or custom build it in your garage

from a buisness standpoint it makes sense, create something that will not make sense for the aftermarket producers to make and it will force players to come to you for parts. but while looking at the industry as a whole it makes it so it looses some sole and interest from the players who are super in depth
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Old February 4th, 2013, 11:06 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Be easier to say that the paintball industry is evolving from pc-world to mac-world.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 07:52 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Be easier to say that the paintball industry is evolving from pc-world to mac-world.
Indeed. And like I (think) I said before that's kind of what probably the whole economical market is demanding now: Simple and pretty looking stuff than even a 12 year-old can understand, that's why Macs and Egos are so popular; of course, in the expence of potential in the product. More experienced people tend to call this kind of buyers stupid, but I think we rather have smarter sellers (and also greedier). So what I think paintball is doing is that it's evolving with the rest of the market, rather than devolving to way too simple stuff.
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