New Player with questions on markers - Paintball Forum - Paintball guns and gear forums
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Old May 28th, 2013, 10:51 AM   #1 (permalink)
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New Player with questions on markers

I went for my first time last saturday. It was a blast, but boy do I feel old now, plenty of aches and pains.

A buddy gave me his tippmann 98 so he could buy the 98 custom. It's neat but it has ridiculous fall-off after about 30ft. It has an upgrade barrel already. I'd like something that remains fairly accurate to 100ft+.

I was looking at some upgrades at the pro shop. The BT4 was there for $150, and the alpha black for $350. I'm incredibly curious what justifies the price difference between the two, since they look similar.

I'm about to buy a marker, I have a guy interested in selling his bt4 assault. I like the look of it. But another guy has an alpha black with cyclone feeder for sale for a bit more.

I like hte assault style as I'm a disabled veteran, and I'm used to that look/feel. I'd like to get better range, 3 round burst and full auto ability, and a remote line to make the gun more manageable.

I'd love to get any advice I can, so I can pick up a better gun before our next outing in a couple weeks.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 11:27 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Search YouTube for the Alfa black and watch the hustle paintball video on it. They go very in depth with it and you'll learn a lot. Search the bt4 and watch the modern intel video. They do a good job on reviews as well. Once you check out both you'll know what you are getting into. My personal advice would be that you look into a spyder e-mr5. You'll get the milsim feel of an ar platform with all the functionality you are looking for. Badlands paintball has a good video of that as well. Good luck.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 12:21 PM   #3 (permalink)
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the price is in the bolt on cosmetics. they're going to shoot the same, and the same as your 98 as well.

i don't understand why your buddy is going from a 98 to a 98c. they're the same thing.

read the ultimate newbie sticky in my sig.

the only thing going to make your accuracy better will be a new barrel and better paint.

as for the drop off, you may need a new mainspring. any respectable shop will have that for you.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 01:42 PM   #4 (permalink)
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He bought an electric trigger thing that can bolt on to the custom but not on the regular 98.

The price on both is a bit above the 98, and at the core they're 98's, and from what I read the 98 is the most popular and reliable beginner gun you can get. So a bit of extra price for a proven good gun doesn't seem like a bad trade-off.

Ideally I'd like to do sniping, and get a barrel with rifling. Seems both BT4 and AB have barrels available. Downside is BT4 doesn't have mag ability that I can find. I'm not sure if AB does. I like the e-mr5 for it's ability to switch between the two.

The local courses where we're playing don't allow you to bring your own paint, but will gladly charge you $100/case for it. Although it seems that way with every course I call.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 03:12 PM   #5 (permalink)
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you're not going to be doing any "sniping" unless you've got first strike rounds. Rifled barrels won't help with accuracy, either. I've not messed around with the mr5, but it's a great concept for those who enjoy mag play.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 03:47 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Yeah, I'm reading more on it. But first strike rounds are pricy, so the ability to switch between the mag and the hopper on the fly would be ideal.

Maybe sniping is the wrong term, but if i'm 30 yards out my 98 doesn't have a chance, the balls wing off in one direction or another at the distance you're supposed to stop shooting people, so a barrage of balls is the only chance of landing a shot. Problem is after 2 balls the next 3-4 will break. Made it really difficult to shoot more than 3-4 bps. I cleaned the barrel, made sure everything was in operating order, but they'd break if I got on the trigger.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 04:08 PM   #7 (permalink)
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that means you're shooting faster than the hopper can feed. A cheap solution is a proto primo hopper. I've tried to outshoot one on a mech tippman, and was unable to. Also invest in a solid pull through squeegee. I got mine for under $5 at Dicks, and that was 10 years ago. It's still going strong, and still working great. A dirty barrel with apint and junk it it is terrible and your paint will go everywhere. If you're getting breaks on the field, a nice barrel swap will be a fantastic investment. keep it with you on the field and stuff it in your barrel if you get a break. After the game is over, run a squeegee through it. REds swabs are a little pricey, but they won't fall apart like cheaper ones i've bought. They'r totally worth the extra cost.

avoid these at all cost, they are garbage.



these are not terrible and do a pretty good job. a great alternative if you an't find the ones made only of a wire and plastic discs.

I can't find the one I use; that's too bad, it's fantastic.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 06:27 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I figured that's what it was. I have a barrel cleaner similar to what I use in my shotgun. Looks like this:



It has a 10" carbon fiber barrel on it. The hopper is a standard one I saw everywhere, looked like this:
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Old May 28th, 2013, 06:34 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Proto Primo Loader - Black

and yes, those swabs are very helpful when you're on the field. they dont' clean it out perfectly though, that why you also nesd a squeegee.
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Old May 29th, 2013, 08:16 AM   #10 (permalink)
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awwww...Martix... you put my straight shot on the "garbage" list. Sad day.


If I'm playing out door and the paint isn't cooperating with me, I pull mine out of the trunk of my car and wear it around. Its a lot easier and nicer to use to clean a barrel than the $2 plastic jerk squeegee...and you don't have to pull your gun 1/2 apart to use it.

Given the choice and unlimited time - I'll run my jerk through the barrel after taking it off. But... if I had a bad break in the barrel and I don't feel I have a full 30 seconds to clean the mess - I'm using the straight shot.


But...swabs, jerks, straight shots... all have their place.
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Old May 29th, 2013, 11:33 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Thanks for the input.

I'm beginning to realize that most people play speedball where weight and maneuverability is key. We play woodsball on 2-5 acre heavily wooded fields with streams and things like that. We're fat people, not trying to do a whole lot of running, and not to maneuverable.
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Old May 29th, 2013, 11:45 AM   #12 (permalink)
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The problem with the straight shot is a lot of people don't know how to use it properly. They just stick it in and push all the paint to the breach and cause an even bigger mess.
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Old May 29th, 2013, 11:47 AM   #13 (permalink)
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The problem with the straight shot is a lot of people don't know how to use it properly. They just stick it in and push all the paint to the breach and cause an even bigger mess.
a squeegee shouldn't have to come with an instruction manual. How exactly, do you use one of them?
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Old May 29th, 2013, 11:57 AM   #14 (permalink)
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The rubber tip folds down, which is why the spring is on the other end. This allows you to push it to the breach without pushing all of the paint back there. Then when you pull it out, it cleans the barrel. Then swab the barrel if necessary.


I just use a jerk squeegee though.
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Old May 29th, 2013, 12:30 PM   #15 (permalink)
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stop arguing. Exalt barrel maid

Or bomb swabs
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Old May 29th, 2013, 12:43 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Thanks for the input.

I'm beginning to realize that most people play speedball where weight and maneuverability is key. We play woodsball on 2-5 acre heavily wooded fields with streams and things like that. We're fat people, not trying to do a whole lot of running, and not to maneuverable.
Its common for everyone to try and separate the concepts behind air/hyperball/speedball and playing out in the woods.

The reality is - all these ideas and concepts come down to personal preference in the methodology and mentality of the individuals playing the game. Whether you're running around in the woods or running behind air bunkers - the skill sets, and tactics are identical. Whether you're 6' and between 200 and 250 pounds, or 5'2 and under 120... speed, and maneuverability, gear weight, and heat will all factor into the equation of how successful you will be as a player, and how long the enjoyment of the outing will last.

For me, and for most people that will speak on this point - weight and breathe-ability of the garments play a huge role in their personal enjoyment of the sport. Whether I'm in the woods or on an airball field - i wear the same clothes and I carry the same setup.

If dressing up like a member of the US Armed Forces and trying to get as close to looking the part adds to your personal enjoyment - by all means - do it. As always - there's a cost-benefit analysis that you'll have to make for yourself.
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Old May 29th, 2013, 01:05 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Actually, I think the majority of paintballers ARE woodsballers (over the entire population). But as you alluded to, the "speedball" marker is lighter thus less tiring to carry and more maneuverable.
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Old May 29th, 2013, 01:07 PM   #18 (permalink)
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stop arguing.



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Old May 29th, 2013, 04:15 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Yeah, I'm reading more on it. But first strike rounds are pricy, so the ability to switch between the mag and the hopper on the fly would be ideal.

Maybe sniping is the wrong term, but if i'm 30 yards out my 98 doesn't have a chance, the balls wing off in one direction or another at the distance you're supposed to stop shooting people, so a barrage of balls is the only chance of landing a shot. Problem is after 2 balls the next 3-4 will break. Made it really difficult to shoot more than 3-4 bps. I cleaned the barrel, made sure everything was in operating order, but they'd break if I got on the trigger.
FS rounds are very pricy but they do offer the actual ability to snipe which before they came along never existed. While shooting standard paintballs you can not "snipe" by the classic definition anyway because you can not have more range or more accuracy than everyone else on the field. doesnt matter if your barrel is 5" 15" or 5' long, the paintball that comes out of it has to be going under 300fps just like everyone else on the field and without more velocity you can not have more range

accuracy can be helped to an extent but while shooting a liquid filled gelatin sphere with a seam that rolls through the air it is only going to get so good. Maximum effective range for a standard paintball is largely considered 150ft or 50 yards so I am not really surprised you are seeing your paint curve off at 30 yards. The easiest way to help accuracy is to buy better paint. Better paint is more round and has a flatter seam, both of which help it as it is flying through the air. Accuracy is determined by the paint and barrel only, the markers job is just to put a burst of air behind it and unless you are talking about consistency the marker can not effect accuracy. that said the paint makes up about 90% of the accuracy game and the barrel the other 10%. I am assuming you were shooting cheap paint through the 98 seeing as it was your first time out so next time, try some of the better paint.


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Thanks for the input.

I'm beginning to realize that most people play speedball where weight and maneuverability is key. We play woodsball on 2-5 acre heavily wooded fields with streams and things like that. We're fat people, not trying to do a whole lot of running, and not to maneuverable.
performance is performance, doesnt matter where it is. the marker doesnt care if it is next to a tree or an inflatable bunker it is going to preform like it was intended to. markers that look like firearms in reality are worse in almost every measurable way than their counterpart that does not.

if you have not already, read the link that huckduck suggested, it is also in my sig as well. there is a lot of info in there just for players like yourself
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Old May 30th, 2013, 07:48 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Better or worse paint, it's all the same. They don't allow outside paint, so everyone's playing with the same stuff. But at 30-50ft I could see the balls winging off to the side, up, other side, down. And occasionally strait, but seldom.

Milsim's could be worse in the aspect of weight, maneuverability, but as far as accuracy goes, if it's a 98 platform, it should shoot like a 98. I think that my weapon was just wildly misconfigured or filthy inside. I cleaned hte barrel only by removing and pushing the sludge through but I couldn't do any more than that at the field.

I've read every "new player guide" i could find. It's good info. But at the rate of deceleration in atmosphere, a 12" barrel vs a 16" barrel, that extra 4" provides an extra 8-12ft in distance given the same conditions. Each ball starts slowing dow immediately after they exit the barrel. Assuming they're moving at the same velocity when they exit the barrel, the force of resistance, gravity, and lack of pressure is gone, so 4" sooner it starts to decel. There's math and physics in there but it works out. At some point you'll have a barrel to long where the further a ball goes the more negative pressure it creates, and that's when your accuracy will go way down, as well as distance.
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Old May 30th, 2013, 07:56 PM   #21 (permalink)
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poor quality of paint will give you poor accuracy as well.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 02:03 AM   #22 (permalink)
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if its a rental, 99% of the time, its a dirty barrel. even if you're renting, bring a barrel swab / pull through. make your day that much more enjoyable
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Old May 31st, 2013, 10:42 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Better or worse paint, it's all the same. They don't allow outside paint, so everyone's playing with the same stuff. But at 30-50ft I could see the balls winging off to the side, up, other side, down. And occasionally strait, but seldom.
if they are like most fields out there then they offer more than one paint for you to buy, try the more expensive stuff next time and you will see a difference


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Milsim's could be worse in the aspect of weight, maneuverability, but as far as accuracy goes, if it's a 98 platform, it should shoot like a 98. I think that my weapon was just wildly misconfigured or filthy inside. I cleaned hte barrel only by removing and pushing the sludge through but I couldn't do any more than that at the field.
just because it is a 98 does not mean it will shoot like another 98 that has a good barrel and good paint going through it. there is nothing you can "misconfigure" about the marker itself that would lead to paint flying in strange ways besides consistency issues which it does not sound like you have. if it is the stock barrel on the 98 those things are largely considered the worst barrels in all of paintball. tippmann bores them to somewhere in the .70 to .75 range just to make sure that you can shoot ANY paint that you put into them. In all honesty and with the right tools you could make a better barrel in your garage.

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I've read every "new player guide" i could find. It's good info. But at the rate of deceleration in atmosphere, a 12" barrel vs a 16" barrel, that extra 4" provides an extra 8-12ft in distance given the same conditions. Each ball starts slowing dow immediately after they exit the barrel. Assuming they're moving at the same velocity when they exit the barrel, the force of resistance, gravity, and lack of pressure is gone, so 4" sooner it starts to decel. There's math and physics in there but it works out. At some point you'll have a barrel to long where the further a ball goes the more negative pressure it creates, and that's when your accuracy will go way down, as well as distance.
not true, if you have a 6" barrel and a 12" barrel, IN THEORY you would have an extra 6" of range when measuring FROM THE BREACH but its not like the paintball turns around when it comes out and says "o hey, that is a longer barrel, i am going to fly an extra 15 feet" 6" =/ 12 feet.

That aside this is also not a perfect world that we live in, so even if you want to say you have an extra 6" of "range" from a 12" barrel vs a 6" barrel the problem is that each paintball will come out at a slightly different speed and therefore travel a slightly different distance. on the same barrel some will travel a few extra feet and some will not. just measuring the distance each ball travels you would be looking at differences in feet not inches so swap the barrel and re-chrono, even measuring from the breach you will not be able to see an extra 6" of range because the spread of paintballs will be so large.

regardless of the barrel it comes out of each paintball will hit the same conditions after it exits, the distance it travels from the barrel tip all other things being the same is only determined by exit velocity (FS rounds aside) The reason longer barrels work for military snipers is because they increase the exit velocity of the round but in our sport exit velocity is determined by the field for safety reasons. so again, doesnt matter if you have a 5" barrel or a 5' barrel, from the barrel tip your exit velocity will be the same and therefore so will your range from the tip. If your theory was true that an extra 4" gives you an additional 8-12ft of range then a 5' barrel (yes i have seen one) should be giving an additional 120ft in range equaling about a 270ft total range which is not possible (and didnt happen) The funny part is this 5' barrel, which is totally un-usable on the field, compared to a normal barrel actually decreased the exit velocity (nothing was adjusted on the marker between the two) because the friction in the barrel slowed the round down
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