Thread Tools

***Wes Himself*** · September 11th, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBluedevil

Alpha, you are the kind of person I wish would get their ass drafted.

If you dislike america that much, Canada isn't that far of a drive. No one will miss you.

Back on topic.

Open a new thread if you wish to discuss your 9/11 conspiracy bull**** and how you hate america but don't have the balls to leave.

Alpha I would miss you.

But then again you would still be able to be on PBF so I wouldnt really have to miss you.

-wes

**buddhaHybrid** · September 11th, 06:00 PM

Why do so many people require a superficial 'anniversary', for lack of a better word, to be humble and reminisce on lost ones and a tragedy? I understand the significance of the day, but when there is little discussion on any other day of the year, I find it shallow when people start to feel their oats only when it is blazoned ubiquitously.

**Jinjiro** · September 11th, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buddhaHybrid

Why do so many people require a superficial 'anniversary', for lack of a better word, to be humble and reminisce on lost ones and a tragedy? I understand the significance of the day, but when there is little discussion on any other day of the year, I find it shallow when people start to feel their oats only when it is blazoned ubiquitously.

Do you celebrate your birthday every day then?

-Jin

**1337** · September 11th, 08:06 PM

Well, on a lighter note...

Q: What's Al Qaida's favorite football team?
A: The New York Jets

This is a joke by the way.

***martix_agent*** · September 11th, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1337

Well, on a lighter note...

Q: What's Al Qaida's favorite football team?
A: The New York Jets

that's both horrible and hilarious a the same time. I feel so bad about laughing at it.

This is a joke by the way. [/quote]

**buddhaHybrid** · September 11th, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jinjiro

Do you celebrate your birthday every day then?

-Jin

Not quite, I celebrate life everyday, however, which is essentially the purpose of a birthday.

**Twistedpain** · September 11th, 10:23 PM

so my school didn't have a moment of silence. I'm making a complaint tomorrow morning

**ComradeMolyneux** · September 11th, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twistedpain

so my school didn't have a moment of silence. I'm making a complaint tomorrow morning

How long do you have to celebrate this stuff, move on and quit playing the humble sympathy card....

**Jinjiro** · September 11th, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComradeMolyneux

How long do you have to celebrate this stuff, move on and quit playing the humble sympathy card....

It's been almost 2000 years and we still remember the death of Jesus.

Just for you, Comrade.

-Jin

**Number One Andrew** · September 11th, 11:44 PM

I'd just like to say that I skimmed through this thread and would like to lend my support for Sam.

I would also like to inform you all that nationalism is silly.

-Andrew never writes out actual responses because he's already established himself as a demigod on PBF, and has no desire to go any further on the mythological chain of command.

***Wes Himself*** · September 11th, 11:46 PM

If any of you want to watch this it's pretty interesting... I just got back from watching it / hear a dude talk about it at western. We only watched part 2 and 3... 1st part is mainly about religion and that wasn't the dudes major or something so he wasnt allowed to talk about it.

Zeitgeist - The Movie, 2007

**mspainter** · September 11th, 11:48 PM

Haha nice one jin.

It took my school a few hours but in 3rd period they had a moment of silence.

1337, that was hysterical.

**BlueShox** · September 11th, 11:57 PM

By putting forth a lot of stuff like this on 9/11, we're letting the Terrorists win.

:nododgy:

**sNoW PIrAnHa** · September 12th, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Headley

"In 1945, we dropped two atomic bombs on two cities. Hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of people died. In this case, I will say that it was the lesser of two evils, but it is an evil thing regardless."

This was not the lesser of two evils. It was well documented that the Japanese WANTED to surrender, but the US wanted to make a statement to Russia to prove that they were not going to take over the world without a fight during the post WWII era. Japan was cut off, they had nothing left but a ground force without a navy and without any real air force. Invasion wasn’t a must, and neither was dropping those two bombs which are still affecting Japan today. IMO, US made a bad choice there.- Brian

No, they didn't "want to surrender" they considered it, under their terms. One of the terms was the emperor staying in charge. Another was them trying the American POWs being tried as war criminals and staying in Japan for the rest of their lives (all 400,000 of them were starving to death in slave labor camps). Also, Japan never discussed surrender with the US.

At the time, Japan was a nation living under the Bushido code, fight to the death, Kamikaze, never surrender, honor, yada yada yada. A surrender would be unthinkable. Estimated U.S. casualties for an invasion was 1 million. Japan was a nation of people willing to do anything for the emperor. An invasion would've killed millions of Japanese.

The Japanese military did the same thing as Saddam did, they interspersed their military installations inside densely populated areas. Bombing military targets was impossible. They needed to be shocked into surrender. They didn't even surrender after the first bomb was dropped.

Unfortunately, it was the best option.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpha

I think my whole point is that, modern politicians suck, and the ideas of the Enlightenment need to be built upon and implemented.

Then get out of the thread. This is about an event that happened six years ago where thousands of innocent americans died. We still remember Pearl Harbor and we still remember the Fourth of July.

**sNoW PIrAnHa** · September 12th, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meatwadttm

Right now we're over there trying to restore them. We've collapsed their government, trying to rebuild a new one. We've set up power grids so villages could have power and running water, Put up schools so that kids could go to school. We ****ed iraq up, just as we did Japan almost, and we're trying to rebuild them. Troops go and stay with Iraqi's and most of them are happy to allow the soldiers into their home even with no notice. THey give even if they don't have hardly anything, and in return we give them food and water and supplies. It's become an emotional battle really, the terrorists are against us, but the actual Iraqi's and everything are for the most part glad. The reason their pissed off is because they are used to a dictatorship where they were told what to do. Democracy isn't working out too well because now they have a voice and they don't exactly know what to do with it. We take democracy for granted, and barely vote. We're trying to rebuild their economy, and pull them out of the sink hole they are in. Once they become an industrialized nation they will prove to be a huge benefit to america. I was very ignorant about the whole situation overseas until my brother in law who's a marine explained it for me.

Also, because it's such a poor nation, most people killing americans don't even hate us. Their country is so poor that it's either kill to feed your starving family or die. Kids grow up in poverty, look at minority gangs like crip and blood. They can't get that much money so the way they get it is by killing and stealing, just like in Iraq. They grow up in a poor war turned society, so it's almost genetic to murder and fight, and eventually, by spreading democracy and rebuilding their country, america will be seen as the good guys, and Iraq and afghanistan will acknowledge it, and they will hopefully have peace, but for now, since we collapsed their government, if we pull out, anarchy will arise and who knows what kind of terrorism is going to happen.

Its ****ed up if we leave and its ****ed up if we stay. We've got the sunnis and the shiites trying to get control of oil and the government and we've got the kurds trying to get their own country. Turkey doesn't want that because the kurds in Turkey will most likely want to do the same.

We have, in ways, improved the country. They didn't have running water, medical care, electricity or anything like that. I've talked to troops and there are good things happening there. People are getting married there now. People are having marriages that aren't arranged or forced.

Good things have happened. But same with bad, innocent people have died from our bombs. We've tortured prisoners. It is a very ****ed up situation.

***Dooms*** · September 12th, 12:56 AM

I won't talk about Iraq. I'll leave that to Medic and Bubba. I don't feel I could draw an educated opinion without being there, or having been there.

I can however draw an opinion on the WTC, since I watched it happen, in person. I don't really feel like talking about that much either. Rest assured though, I will never ever forget what I saw.

**TonyD** · September 12th, 02:30 AM

There were a few things that I typed about the 9/11 events and the Iraq war, but I deleted them when I thought this thread was deleted (I couldn't find it). I don't feel like typing them again and I don't think it was crazily important, either. These are the things I wanted to say and I spent a good while typing this, so if you'd like to read it, please do.

Thank you(s).

*****

I was actually trying to let this thread slide by "unnoticed," because I knew there would be a lot of just... bad **** in it, and from a variety of different directions. Understanding that some people find my long posts pompous and stupid, I was actually going to take a bow on this one.

That is, until Andrew informed me that "Alpha has gone off the deep end." And wouldn't ya know it? I have a lot to say. Dammit, I hate having a lot to say.

I'll address things this way...

Honor in Battle

Quote:

Originally Posted by kant_think

They're cowards because instead of grabbing a gun and fighting a real style of war, they fly planes into skycrapers, put bombs on their chest and run around blowing innocent up, and put bombs in their cars and blow them up. Rarely do you see "Soldiers killed in large firefight." Normally it is "Three soldiers killed in suicide bombing."

Let's back up. When was there an official document written up to define what is "real" war and what is not? What are the official rules? Are there boundaries (Out of bounds! Red team ball!) or penalties?

As far as I'm concerned, the worn out "All's fair in love and war" is absolutely true, no matter what some committees with a few papers want to say. What is war, anyways, other than a huge conflict in which one side wants to destroy the other side for whatever reason, in any way possible? Saying that you can and cannot do things is silly and unrealistic; you are trying to kill your enemy.

And who are you to decide what is more and less brave? Why is shooting a gun in "real war" less cowardly than putting your life at risk in any other way. Hell—we're all big pussies because we've given up the way of sword and shield. Any moron weakling can be taught to pull a trigger; a truly brave warrior must be in excellent physical condition and have awesome technique if he is to fight his enemy face to face and emerge victorious. "Warriors" are long gone, or if not, they are extremely lost in this world. Many of the people serving in the military don't even know why: Is it an occupation? Is it a good way to see the world? Is it a good way to build character? Is it a good excuse to get paid for killing people? Is it just something to do with your boring, meaningless life?

This, of course, leads me to my next issue.

Killing Innocent Civilians

Quote:

Originally Posted by MedicDVG

Because rather then attack a military target, these so called "enlightened Muslims" were hoping to kill tens of thousands of people in the towers. Innocent people; their only crime was living in America.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricep8ntballr

alpha, i can see the validity of most of your points and i will agree, our gov't is pretty screwed up, but that is never an excuse for the people seeking reform (terrorists in this case) to murder innocent people. Yeah ok so maybe the innocent people are fat slobbish American's who take their excellent day to day lives for granted, but **** that doesn't justify murder!!!

I think we could all agree that this might be among the most dishonorable traits of warfare. But don't be short-sighted: Operation "Shock and Awe"—was that not basically the damage of large areas meant to scare, with little regard for "collateral damage"? Alpha was wise to bring up the atomic bombs in World War II—the two largest military attacks on civilians in the recorded history of the earth. What was the crime of the Japanese population? Living in Japan? So what if they were living under a terrible government and system? I would say that one could argue the same about America in 2001, even if to a different degree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Headley

This was not the lesser of two evils. It was well documented that the Japanese WANTED to surrender, but the US wanted to make a statement to Russia to prove that they were not going to take over the world without a fight during the post WWII era. Japan was cut off, they had nothing left but a ground force without a navy and without any real air force. Invasion wasn’t a must, and neither was dropping those two bombs which are still affecting Japan today. IMO, US made a bad choice there.

You're taking shots at nothing. So maybe it wasn't the lesser of two evils—I don't think Alpha was trying to justify the atomic bomb. You saying this only further reveals the attack as a malicious bombardment of civilian targets. No matter how you look at it, I think we can all agree that the whole ordeal was just kinda F-ed up.

Nationalism
This isn't exactly fitting of the thread, but I've seen it brought up twice, and it's something I think I should address.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpha

Oh come on, lets shut up with this whole nationalist 'never forget' bull****.

This is