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**ViP_ViPeR** · September 29th, 12:21 PM

Alpha

Driving through a state and visiting a state are very diffrent, and I'm sorry but I highly doubt you have visited every state in the main land, and I find it very hard to believe that you have even driven through every state.

But I could be wrong.

Saying that you have seen more of the US than he will in his lifetime is just plain ignorant and stupid, you really should think before you post. Im pretty sure legit isnt over 25 years of age and he definately has a long life ahead of him. If you honestly think that in the measly 18-19 years of your life you can actually assume that you have seen more than he will in his lifetime, you need a reality check.

***NYY*** · September 29th, 12:23 PM

I'm not going to question your right to have a mancrush on Ahmedenejad. unlike in his country, over here you can speak your mind and not have to fear your safety.

Tony, you say that some of the things he says are true. And I agree. We shouldn't blindly follow our government, we SHOULD question what the government does, and hold it accountable for its mistakes.
But you're falling right into his trap. He knows that Americans don't trust Bush or the government, so he says things like this to get you to listen and trust him. Just because he says these things, that doesn't mean he deserves respect. Ronald Reagan told us not to trust the government, but he actually did something about it.

Alpha · September 29th, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViP_ViPeR

Alpha

Driving through a state and visiting a state are very diffrent, and I'm sorry but I highly doubt you have visited every state in the main land, and I find it very hard to believe that you have even driven through every state.

But I could be wrong.

Saying that you have seen more of the US than he will in his lifetime is just plain ignorant and stupid, you really should think before you post. Im pretty sure legit isnt over 25 years of age and he definately has a long life ahead of him. If you honestly think that in the measly 18-19 years of your life you can actually assume that you have seen more than he will in his lifetime, you need a reality check.

I actually have photos of me standing in front of 48 'Welcome to xxxxxxxxxx' signs. Have you ever been on a long excursion? Just take off for a few months? You really learn a lot about different cultures across any nation, or even the world- just by traveling.

I ****ing hate how you can type out enormous text responses on forums. People like you make a comment on one specific part in a post I made, which has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was trying to make. Then I make another enormous post in response, and the thread has taken off on a tangent. At least when you speak to someone in discussion, you can stay on track.

The point I was making was that I love America, and it is the duty (not the right) of a citizen to keep his government in check. We might think that our view of the world and our empire can't be stopped, but it can. Keeping things balanced enough that enough people are happy is very difficult, if not impossible to do. Its only a matter of time before things go sour.

But as long as there is good communication, unless one side really is evil- both sides will benefit.

**2 legit** · September 29th, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpha

Damn straight I have rights. Lets discuss rights for a second, because I think it is very relevant to what your saying.

When the constitution was written, they slipped in, among other things, the right to bear arms. The idea was that it was necessary for the security of a free state.

Let me quoth the declaration of independence:

In other words, if the government is being bad, it is the DUTY (not just a right) of the people to do something to fix it.

I love America. I've seen more of this country then you ever will- I'm sure of that. I've been to every state that you can drive to that isn't Alaska.

Why would I move to Iran? I grew up in America and I have been conditioned to think the same way most of you do. I dont think like an Iranian.

I dont hate politics, not do I hate america. I simply think there is a better direction we could be going in. But its not going to happen because of the way we are conditioned by our enviornment

Believe it or not Alpha this one was not primarily directed at you. However since you chose to address me personally I will return the favor. First and foremost, don't assume anything when talking about someone on the internet. Please do not take this as an attack but I'm just commenting that it lessens your point, due to the fact your making a rather large assumption. Trust me, I have been places, and probably seen things that most people will not. While I agree with your general stance of reform, I rarely agree with the things you post. It seems alot of your post are more about complaining about how the nation is without offering a solution. This is a big pet peeve of mine. Please by all means comment all you will about the nations political agenda, however as you stated it is your DUTY to try and fix it......possibly by offerign up your opinion for a solution. I do not question your love for America only your knowledge of this perticular leaders government. The leader of Iran has actively admitted to providing the insurgents killing OUR troops with weapons and supplies. Whether you support the decision of Bush or any other politician, this should be enough to not glorify him. The soldiers are dying by the hands and the bankroll of this man. And while you may argue the troops should just be pulled out, they do not get a big choice in that. They enlisted in an organization that does not allow someone to just quit.

**ViP_ViPeR** · September 29th, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpha

I actually have photos of me standing in front of 48 'Welcome to xxxxxxxxxx' signs.

As I suspected, you've only driven through most of these states

I ****ing hate how you can type out enormous text responses on forums. People like you make a comment on one specific part in a post I made, which has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was trying to make. Then I make another enormous post in response, and the thread has taken off on a tangent. At least when you speak to someone in discussion, you can stay on track.

This is usually what happens when you make a rediculous statement making your self look ignorant and stupid. Your whole post went to **** in one sentence. You've been on these forums since 2003 Alpha, you should be used to this by now.

**TonyD** · September 30th, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2 legit

Trust me, I've read everything you've posted in the recent months and to tell you the truth I really wasn't impressed.

Well, excuse me, but my aim was never to "impress." Maybe you have read everything I've typed in the last few months, but that's not important. If you have, you clearly either weren't paying attention, thought part-way through "this is too long/boring/whiny," or approached it with the pretentious position of looking at me as just another whining kid who isn't doing anything. If anything I've said was actually processed by this wonderful organ us humans are blessed with called a brain, you wouldn't have made that last post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2 legit

You guys are ****in ridiculous. Every chance you get you bash the government that allows you the right to speak freely, even to say how much you dislike it. If you dislike American politics so much why don't you go find a country you like better, and live there. You seem to like the Iranian leader maybe you should go and be one of his followers.

Not only did I not say anything about the government, but the common approach that America "gave" me my freedom is quite simply a lie.

Quote:

So in the end I guess I am supposed to celebrate this "culture" because it doesn't restrict me as much as other governments could. That doesn't seem logical to me.

America didn't give me my "rights"—I was born with them.

Freedom isn't free... and other thoughts from Iraq

A person is born into a very large, open field. At one edge there is a heavily wooded forest filled with lots of creatures that could be killed and eaten; on the other there is a vast garden filled with tasty fruits and veggies. This person has the freedom to choose which direction they would like to choose to head for their dinner.

After some thought they head towards the woods, deciding to fashion a spear and look for a slow-moving animal. After a few hours, and miles of walking, they reach the edge of the forest and see a sign: "No trespassing. Violators will be shot." Full of regret, they slowly turn and head back in the other direction, towards the garden.

After a few hours, and miles of walking, they arrive back at the point at which they started. It is then they realize that the travel in the other direction is almost twice as far as it was to the forest. Full of regret, they continue on. After a few hours, and many more miles of walking, they reach the garden and see a sign: "No trespassing. Violators will be shot." Exhausted, the person collapses and dies.

The very role of government is to restrict freedom, not hand it out. You see, we are all born "free"; we are free to make decisions, say piss****asscunt****ballspussy, travel wherever we wish, do whatever we want. It is government and law-making that restricts these freedoms. The US government may "allow" me to speak my mind, but that is a very modest "allowance," in my mind. But government wasn't the point, and I honestly don't see how you brought that into this.

Quote:

If you dislike america that much, Canada isn't that far of a drive. No one will miss you.

Back on topic.

Open a new thread if you wish to discuss your 9/11 conspiracy bull**** and how you hate america but don't have the balls to leave.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheTruth3378

Would you guys please go to a communist country? Your not a comrade. Last time I checked your governed by a democracy.

This is a peculiar attitude prevalent in an alarming number of people. How is it even slightly logical to say that Alpha, myself, or any other person who "hates America" (WTF does that even mean?!) is the pussy for wanting to fight to make something better? I think it makes the docile citizen the apathetic pussy for sitting around and nonchalantly pushing aside anyone else's noble causes as "extreme," stupid, unrealistic, etc., without putting any thought into anything. I suppose, though, it is a hell of a lot easier to just say "If you don't like America you can git out!" than actually think about anything. And duh! We're modern! We embrace everything that's easy!

I consider myself a nihilist—that's right, someone who "doesn't believe in anything"—but holy ****... I'm one of the least apathetic people around here it seems. If I leave America it will be for different reasons than just not liking it. Many of us have problems that are prevalent in not only America, but much of the "modern" world, but that's something that many either fail to see or prefer to ignore. And just like above, this isn't just black and white. It's not as simple as "Like it or get the **** out." Pretending that it is is retarded.

Obviously I don't have the authority to speak for Alpha, but I think he would share this sentiment: We don't "hate America"; we want to create a better, healthy future—America included. How is that absurd? How is that not honorable?

**** shrugging my shoulders and saying "I dunno" like many suggest. I'm going to take an active role in smashing it all to pieces... or at least until it looks a little better.

Tomorrow is 9/11, Have you forgotten?

Maybe you're fine being complacent and apathetic, but I'm not. I see things that need fixing and I'm not so deluded to think that America (or anywhere else) is perfect.

I don't have much to add here.

Maybe you just want me to shut up because you find me annoying; but you know what I find annoying? Ignorance. My fight isn't against America, or even the rest of the industrialized world. My fight is a fight of attitudes and ideas, your behavior being just one that I have a problem with.

The idea that all things American are right, just, and untouchable needs to be destroyed. I've been watching the documentary The War this week, and a particularly poignant piece made mention of how terrible American soldiers were when they first entered the war. They read quotes from high-level British officials telling an American general that he needed to whip his boys into shape if there was any hope at winning. They read another quote from a man whom I think was a military journalist about the American ego and arrogance; how simply just being American was enough to enable them to stroll into Europe and kick out the evil Nazis. This was humorous in a way, but worrisome in another, because this attitude is still present in our society, and in many ways it has even worsened.

So again, my problems don't necessarily lie with the institutions or the lawmakers, but the ideas. The collective human mind has hundreds, if not thousands of years worth of damage done to it that needs repair. People all over the world are delusional, docile, and apathetic. This leads to corruption while nobody is paying attention and a sorry situation for all of us. While you're telling me to shut up, I'll avert my attention elsewhere.

Maybe you'll remain unimpressed, but until you do or say anything to demonstrate any actual reason I should shut up or get the **** out, I'll continue calling out the ignorant when I see them.

To everyone else: I apologize for taking this space to bring the thread off topic.

**TonyD** · September 30th, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYY

I'm not going to question your right to have a mancrush on Ahmedenejad. unlike in his country, over here you can speak your mind and not have to fear your safety.

Tony, you say that some of the things he says are true. And I agree. We shouldn't blindly follow our government, we SHOULD question what the government does, and hold it accountable for its mistakes.
But you're falling right into his trap. He knows that Americans don't trust Bush or the government, so he says things like this to get you to listen and trust him. Just because he says these things, that doesn't mean he deserves respect. Ronald Reagan told us not to trust the government, but he actually did something about it.

I think you're jumping to some kind of unfit conclusion. I don't know what it is you think I think about the guy, but given the fact that seem to be arguing over it and telling me I'm "falling right into his trap" leads me to believe it's wrong.

I'm critical by nature; therefore, I'm wary of anyone with a silver tongue. In all honesty I don't know much about him, or Iran, for that matter, as I don't really follow the news that well, perhaps even more so when it comes to foreign affairs. But the other day I caught him speaking on CSPAN while flipping through the channels and overheard him saying some things that made me think "hell yeah." Likewise, I also noticed that he sidestepped a number of questions and kind of went off on tangents, just like I would expect of most politicians.

What I said before basically says all I think I need to say. He questions groupthink and unquestioned trust of what we see in the media, how it is possible that one person regularly speaks on behalf of the country, and the dogmatic attitude many of us Americans seem to hold towards Iranians. I also find it a bit strange that he's labled as a Muslim "extremist," because I only heard him say Allah (well, God, since it was through an interpreter) a handful of times in about an hour—less than many American politicians would say God. Also, much of what he says is so not extreme. But alas, beware the silver tongue.

**crustybug** · October 1st, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpha

I love America. I've seen more of this country then you ever will- I'm sure of that. I've been to every state that you can drive to that isn't Alaska.

what about hawaii?

Alpha · October 1st, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crustybug

what about hawaii?

You can't drive to hawaii... At least I dont think a car could make the trip.

**ViP_ViPeR** · October 2nd, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpha

You can't drive to hawaii... At least I dont think a car could make the trip.

Somebody tell this guy about the bridge.

**ComradeMolyneux** · October 2nd, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViP_ViPeR

Somebody tell this guy about the bridge.

I live right next to it on the California side.

Alpha · October 2nd, 10:19 PM

you guise serius?

**hurdlebeast** · October 2nd, 10:19 PM

right to bear arms: Family Guy - Right To Bear Arms Video

**ComradeMolyneux** · October 2nd, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpha

you guise serius?

Connects Catalina --> Hawaii's big island.

**hurdlebeast** · October 3rd, 03:01 PM

that bridge is mind bottling

**TonyD** · October 3rd, 04:22 PM

Quote:

A man walking along a California beach was deep in prayer. All of a sudden he said out loud, "Lord grant me one wish."

At once the sky clouded above his head and in a booming voice the Lord said, "Because you have TRIED to be faithful to me in all ways, I will grant you one wish"

The man said, "Build a bridge to Hawaii, so I can drive over anytime I want to."

The Lord said, "Your request is very materialistic. Think of the logistics of that kind of undertaking. The supports required to reach the bottom of the Pacific! The concrete and steel it would take! I can do it, but it is hard for me to justify your desire for worldly things. Take a little more time and think of another wish, a wish you think would honor and glorify me."

The man thought about it for a long time. Finally he said, "Lord, my wife says that I am uncaring and insensitive. I wish that I could understand women. I want to know how they feel inside, what they are thinking when they give me the silent treatment, why they cry, what they mean when they say "nothing", and how I can make a woman truly happy."

After a few minutes God said, "You want two lanes or four on that bridge?"

Ha! Ha!

***NYY*** · October 3rd, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurdlebeast

that bridge is mind bottling

Haha