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**big_balla** · December 7th, 11:59 AM

Is Mexico at war with us?

***D_Smalls*** · December 7th, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big_balla

Is Mexico at war with us?

I'm not sure how or why you thought this was a sufficient response to the question... or to the entire debate at hand.

**mspainter** · December 7th, 03:39 PM

In that case, I'm not sure how you thought the war in Iraq was relevant.

Well, I kind of see it. You are almost to say that we are in Iraq 'illegally', correct?

I don't think that is the case, partly because we are intending on leaving soon.

**big_balla** · December 7th, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D_Smalls

I'm not sure how or why you thought this was a sufficient response to the question... or to the entire debate at hand.

I don't support the war. I do, however respect the decision to go to war, and I support the troops.

***D_Smalls*** · December 7th, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big_balla

I don't support the war. I do, however respect the decision to go to war, and I support the troops.

In that case, you aren't a hypocrite. Good.

Well, wait.. you respected the decision but don't support it. hm. You might be a hypocrite yet.

***D_Smalls*** · December 7th, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mspainter

In that case, I'm not sure how you thought the war in Iraq was relevant.

Well, I kind of see it. You are almost to say that we are in Iraq 'illegally', correct?

No. But really, yeah. There's a fine line between invasion and liberation, a line that I'm not going to address because it's a pain in the ass.

No, I was going to say something along the lines that the war is all about furthering democracy and raw raw USA land of the free wanting to bring that freedom to the world, yet won't let people enjoy that freedom without paying for it.

Also, I'd like to point out that it isn't only mexicans that are illegal immigrants. Which is why I found big balla's comment about being at war with mexico very arbitrary. There's plenty of canadian illegal immigrants in the states, and chinese, british, polish, you name it. Yet you always hear about the hispanics, which is why I often think this is more of a race issue than tax issue.

**big_balla** · December 7th, 03:58 PM

Respect and support do not go hand in hand.

***D_Smalls*** · December 7th, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big_balla

I don't support the war. I do, however respect the decision to go to war, and I support the troops.

Quote:

Originally Posted by big_balla

Respect and support do not go hand in hand.

No, I think they do.

By your logic: you support the troops, but since support and respect aren't the same, you don't respect the troops. Which I'm sure you actually do.

And you don't support the war, yet you respected the decision to go to war.. why would you respect something you don't support?

I anticipate a response along the lines of "I do not support your opinion, but respect it". This works well when talking about opinions, but not when talking about decisions. Say you don't support abortion, but you respect the opinions of others that do. That isn't the same as not supporting abortion, but respecting the decision to abort a pregnancy. That's contradictory. Therefore, if you don't support the war, how could you respect the decision to go to war? Do you regard it as a necessary evil, then? In which case, you'd have to question the strength of your lack of support.

**toXic** · December 7th, 04:17 PM

I do not support homosexuals, but I respect them enough not to stone them.

How about that?

**big_balla** · December 7th, 04:25 PM

ToXic pretty much hit it on the nail.. But I see your logic.

***D_Smalls*** · December 7th, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toXic

I do not support homosexuals, but I respect them enough not to stone them.

How about that?

You don't support homosexuals, but you wouldn't respect their decision to hit on you.
You don't support homosexuals, but you probably wouldn't respect the decision for a gay couple to adopt or marry. And you probably wouldn't respect their decision to make out in front of you.

This difference occurs when it changes from a passive acceptance of differences in opinions and ideology to the implications of decisions and actions.

ya' dig?

And knowing that if you were to respect them just a tiny bit less you'd stone them, I have to conclude that really you are very intolerant of homosexuals and in actuality don't really have respect for them. In which case, support and respect are very similar.

The whole support/respect thing, to me, seems just like a loop hole for bigots and racists to try and avoid the label. And is the result of such a Political Correct culture. Everyone's too afraid to really take a stand. They say their point, "I don't support homosexuals!", but then throw in that security blanket against the accusation of being homophobic by saying, "but, I do respect them".

weak.

**ComradeMolyneux** · December 7th, 04:29 PM

Interesting blurb about immigration:

http://www.slate.com/id/2168060/

**Number One Andrew** · December 8th, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpha

You guys ever read the book Starship Troopers?

Heinlein talks about his opinions on citizenship throughout the book. For example, in order to vote or get anything from the government, you had to be a veteran.

The major theme was that people who don't have the zeal to risk their lives for the system should not be able to reap teh benefits.

I gave you that book!

**buddhaHybrid** · December 8th, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D_Smalls

No, I think they do.

By your logic: you support the troops, but since support and respect aren't the same, you don't respect the troops. Which I'm sure you actually do.

And you don't support the war, yet you respected the decision to go to war.. why would you respect something you don't support?

I anticipate a response along the lines of "I do not support your opinion, but respect it". This works well when talking about opinions, but not when talking about decisions. Say you don't support abortion, but you respect the opinions of others that do. That isn't the same as not supporting abortion, but respecting the decision to abort a pregnancy. That's contradictory. Therefore, if you don't support the war, how could you respect the decision to go to war? Do you regard it as a necessary evil, then? In which case, you'd have to question the strength of your lack of support.

+1

I would quote your second response to toXic as well but that would make my post mammoth! So +2!

**big_balla** · December 8th, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D_Smalls

You don't support homosexuals, but you wouldn't respect their decision to hit on you.
You don't support homosexuals, but you probably wouldn't respect the decision for a gay couple to adopt or marry. And you probably wouldn't respect their decision to make out in front of you.

This difference occurs when it changes from a passive acceptance of differences in opinions and ideology to the implications of decisions and actions.

ya' dig?

And knowing that if you were to respect them just a tiny bit less you'd stone them, I have to conclude that really you are very intolerant of homosexuals and in actuality don't really have respect for them. In which case, support and respect are very similar.

The whole support/respect thing, to me, seems just like a loop hole for bigots and racists to try and avoid the label. And is the result of such a Political Correct culture. Everyone's too afraid to really take a stand. They say their point, "I don't support homosexuals!", but then throw in that security blanket against the accusation of being homophobic by saying, "but, I do respect them".

weak.

Those are just assumptions. That may be true for some or most but not all. Again, though, I see your logic. You're a pretty bright guy.

**toXic** · December 8th, 01:55 PM

I was waiting for you to bring up the stoning part lol.

But here is how it is. I definitely don't support it. Yet I have two friends that are that way. They haven't hit on me, but they have hit on friends of mine. As for marriage, I don't see why they shouldn't get the same rights/privileges as a man and woman are able to have. Has this made me respect them less? No.

Smalls, If I could find the right way to word what I said first, I would have left it. But I cant at the moment.

**olddfatbulldog** · December 9th, 05:49 PM

I think it's extremely easy for you to say it's not an accurate analogy when you don't live in it Smalls. You have no idea what things are like. Comrade does, so I think his opinion is a hell of a lot more valid then yours. Even if I disagree. Don't trash on Americans wanting to keep their country closed when you have no idea what it actually is to live in a situation where we have nearly open borders.

And don't try and tell me Canada is even close to similar to the USA concerning this issue.

**ComradeMolyneux** · December 9th, 09:56 PM

Thank you?

**buddhaHybrid** · December 9th, 10:05 PM

If we have open borders, mah ganj should be a bit cheaper...