[olddfatbulldog]

I like wind power.

[toXic]

I do too. But you still have to have things to back it up. You know, since it isn't always windy enough to use them. Same with solar.

[ComradeMolyneux]

Kind of interesting for this topic

Hot Air and Wind

[olddfatbulldog]

I think that a production tax credit for Native Americans (transferable of course, so they could actually use it) would be a great way to bolster their economy and provide massive amounts of wind energy. I read an article the other day that described the Great Plains as "The Saudi Arabia" of wind power.

[ComradeMolyneux]

Monitor | A new twist for offshore wind | Economist.com

[Trbo323]

Originally Posted by olddfatbulldog

I like wind power.

that and solar are a great idea, you just cant apply them on a nation wide basis, im in the pac. northwest, its cloudy all the time and we never get enoufgh wind to power anything. Honestly, nuclear is the way to go, its not making the power thats the issue there its how to de-radiate the isotopes afterwards, unfortunatly there is not a lot of research going into this right now, not to mention the last nuclear reactor that was built in this country was in 1986 if my memory is serving me correctly. But the amount of coal we burn for power is nuts.

[Pierced]

When I get ready to build a home a plan on building it as efficently as possible. Then getting it setup on solar pannels with them tied into regular incoming power. If I can get it all done right I will actually send power back to the plant, making my meter run backwards and them sending me a check. :-D thats the way to do it.

[bobide]

^^That's definitely the way to go. I like to rag on solar and wind a lot and point out the flaws in each but I think that we do need to use these "limitless" power sources. I really think a transition to 10-15% of the nations power coming from renewables is achievable within 5 years. Still though the reliance our entire transportation system has for oil is going to keep the price per barrel up.

[toXic]

How about... NUCLEAR!

[bobide]

Originally Posted by toXic

How about... NUCLEAR!

Nuclear definitely has a place, look for plants to begin construction in 2010. However, what is nuclear going to do about gas prices? You can't exactly strap a nuclear power plant to your car I'm waiting for the new battery technology breakthroughs to get done testing and make it to market. A nice do it yourself hybrid kit would be a sweet follow up.

[martix_agent]

the problem, allen, with solar power, is that it's onyl 20% efficient at it's best. Plus that diminishes over time.

I read/hear a stat that said you you spend $34k on these that are the most efecent for home use, you'll pay it of after 10 years, BUT they'll also diminish 5% of the effectiveness. over the next 10 years they'll diminish another 5% and so on and soforth.

[Pierced]

Idk about that efficiency diminishing and what not (not sayin its not true) but as far as price goes I doubt I would have to spend that much. I know my state offers a lot of different rebates for using alternative energy to help power your home/business %50 assistance. I know there are a few government rebates as well.

[Trbo323]

Originally Posted by bobide

Nuclear definitely has a place, look for plants to begin construction in 2010. However, what is nuclear going to do about gas prices?

well if nuclear had its fair share in the production of power we sould take out any oil burning plants, so it probably wouldnt be an imediate impact but the nuclear power has always been more about cleaning up the way we produce power not so much transportaion. Electic cars would be great for every day commuting if battery technology would catch up to the idea. Hybrids are making a great start for those. Honestly i dont really see hydrogen fuel cell cars becomeing much more than a great idea, creating the hydrogen is hard enoufgh then having to store it is another matter.

But at least this trend towards hybrids and other means of more cost effective ways of transportation has started, now if everyone would only leave the suv at home every time gas drops 10 cents maybe it would stay lower instead of doing this roller coaster.

[bobide]

The main choke right now on oil is demand. China and India have had a big thirst for oil (and they have for the last 5 years or more) Any oil we don't consume will see it heading their way. The result I foresee is oil prices will at most stabilize, nuclear will not create a break on crude prices. The big reason I want to see the transportation grid move away from oil as this would free up a large portion of our GDP for spending on goods and infrastructure. The pickens plan suggests a high transfer over to wind power along with changing from oil to biofuel and natural gas to power cars. PickensPlan: The Plan

I like the wind aspect of the plan, but I think the biofuel and natural gas may create a heavy and expensive R&D burden on the auto makers. I think the hybrid has finally gotten to the tipping point where it can be a real solution and it is something the auto maker are more and more familiar with.

[Pierced]

Biodiesel is where its at as far as alternative fuels IMO. It can be made at home, relatively low start up costs, better for the vehicle/environment, and its cheap to produce.

you can use oil for it from many different plants/vegetables. Many of which you can by in bulk and pres into oil your self then sell off the bi product as live stock feed. The fat that you collect when making the fuel can be sold to soap and candle makers. So there is basicly no waste and everything gets used.

Then your not dependent on crude oil for your fuel.

[olddfatbulldog]

Biomass.

Burn our ****.

[Trbo323]

well the problem with biofuel isnt making it, it is growing it, crops take space to grow and the common concenses is that there is not enoufgh space in the US to grow all the crops needed for biofuel without cutting into the spaces that we grow food for eating. Dont get me wrong i love the biodesel idea but theres also the problem that all the cars that are now being sold do not run on disel.

So i guess that kinda raises another question, in the near future can you see alternitive fuel stations popping up? perhaps a biodisel station, or propane (Las Vegas has already implamented that for the taxi cabs) or a station that would charge a electric car quickly?

[ComradeMolyneux]

Originally Posted by bobide

The big reason I want to see the transportation grid move away from oil as this would free up a large portion of our GDP for spending on goods and infrastructure.

What's it matter if we move away from oil to free up GDP if the US already borrows billions of dollars that it could be using to invest in infrastructure already?

[bobide]

Originally Posted by ComradeMolyneux

What's it matter if we move away from oil to free up GDP if the US already borrows billions of dollars that it could be using to invest in infrastructure already?

Well doesn't it get to a point where that borrowing has a negative effect? I'm certainly not an expert on the national debt and its role in the US economy.

[olddfatbulldog]

Cellulostic ethanol makes up for the resource problems associated with regular ethanol.