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***MedicDVG*** · May 4th, 05:43 PM

These articles are being discussed a great deal on some other forums that I frequent, and I am curious to see the reaction of the membership here.

Cheaters Among Us Part 1A
Cheaters Among Us Part 1
Both article are from the coulumn : An Editorial by By Larry Janecka, PB2x.com

I find the discussion fascinating. While he is not telling us anything we don't already know; it is interesting to see the progression of electronic cheating and the effects that it has on this sport.

Now, I bring these items up for discussion, and I would ask that we at least make some effort to have a mature and responsible discussion, please.

I am very interested how the opionions of this board may coincide or differ from those of my own and those of the author.

**1337** · May 4th, 06:01 PM

I don't even want to get started again on this.. but I know so many people who could back me up, actual ballers.

***Barber*** · May 4th, 06:03 PM

Cheating is a part of the game, no matter how much you hate it, it is. It's been happening too long to stop it.

RyansRaiders · May 4th, 06:17 PM

we(me and friends) dont scheat, one time i got banned for toching my neck when i was playing to see if i had paint on it, but thats as close as i got,

-Ryan

**bob005** · May 4th, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barber

Cheating is a part of the game, no matter how much you hate it, it is. It's been happening too long to stop it.

yep. just as every other sport has cheating, so do we.

cheating is now more of an art than breaking the rules. flame that all you want, but that's as true as it gets

**Krazy_Zack** · May 4th, 06:40 PM

Quote:

The fourth level, street or guerilla paintball, such as non-chronographed woods outlaw play or rule-less speedball play, is so decentralized and separate from anything paintball that it only serves the purpose of satisfying temporary needs.

This part offended me.

I don't know about most people but I am an "outlaw" player. I play woodsball in our local reforestration (basically thousands of acres of woods grown by the government on government land). None of us can afford to go out and buy a "big red" crono so we might be shooting a little "hot" (I tend to crono my gun often at my local field and no mater what I do to it it never seems to go above 280 so I can't see how I would ever shoot "hot" but that another story...). Do we have permision to play there? Nope. DO we play organised and sportsman like games? You bet! Do we allow "cheaters"? Nope!

The local guy (that happens to have his field close to where we play) even fills our tanks for us. He knows that we are "outlawing" it that day but he also knows that we will be playing at his field on the days when we are less straped for cash. He would much perfer for us to fill our tanks from him that go somewhere else.

Anyway there were some good points......

Torch · May 4th, 06:52 PM

Zack, if it comes to it you could have everyone put in like 5$ and buy a used handheld if it ever becomes important enough for your group. It sounds like you guys keep everything under control, but there's probably a good number more groups that don't.

I'm upset about the velocity ramp part. I knew it existed but didn't think it was being accepted as widely. I think that, more than anything else, makes electric cheating dangerous. So wiping is cheating too, but that doesn't have much potential to actually hurt someone.

**Krazy_Zack** · May 4th, 07:02 PM

Ya I keep bidding on those cronos from ebay in the sporting goods section for rifles (seems to be just as good and much cheeper) but when they get over 50-60us i end up loosing the auction. (50 - 60 us is 70 - 100 ca to me and then there is shipping...)

**666paintballer** · May 6th, 02:32 AM

ya, ive read the online articles aswell as part II in the mag. my view really changed after reading them both. but i have to say i really agree with him entirely. he really makes good points in part II that i never really thought about before. i guess he kinda "bashes" paintball, but hes doing it in a good way to make us see what were really doing and what this sport is becoming. if you guys liked the online articles, i highly suggest getting the part II (i think its in april edtion). theres also going to be a part III in may which i will be picking up asap

***phazeshifter*** · May 6th, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barber

Cheating is a part of the game, no matter how much you hate it, it is. It's been happening too long to stop it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob005

yep. just as every other sport has cheating, so do we.

cheating is now more of an art than breaking the rules. flame that all you want, but that's as true as it gets

Those are ignorant statements and you are part of the reason that paintball, as a sport in whole, is rapidly going downhill.
Say what you want in defense of yourself and your cheating friends, but it will do no good, because I am right and you are wrong.
Cheating is not a part of paintball; and it sure as hell isn't an art form. You do not have to cheat--no one is forcing you to. It is very easy to just call yourself "hit" when you know you are. So you don't win the game or the tournament--Big-F**king-Deal! There will be other games and tournaments.
Get a life and grow some balls--have some goddamn integrity. You'll be surprised how much farther it will get you in life; both on the field and off.

**Sh00t em Up** · May 6th, 08:46 AM

I saw this in the magazine and I think that cheating should be allowed in moderate proportion like not being able to have obsene and unsafe ramping in which the velocity jumps to extreme heights. I think it should first be patented and safe.

**2ffu** · May 6th, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phazeshifter

Cheating is not a part of paintball; and it sure as hell isn't an art form.

go play a tourny and tell me wiping isn't an art form. i hate all these nubs that are like you ruin paintball by cheating, when they have an ion set on the highest rebound mode.

i support anything nick says, he is a straight up baller who knows more about tourny play than most people on this forum.

the only time i don't "cheat" is when playing stock class with friends.

***MedicDVG*** · May 6th, 11:05 AM

Good coments so far, but what of the issue that cheating (electronic cheating that is) is making this sport less safe -- ramping velocities, dangerous markers that have uncontrollable bounce, uncontrollable runaway, etc.

I think that is the part of the argument that gets missed. Yes, wiping and all that is rampant, but does it have to be?

I am more concerned about the player that has such a sensitive debounce setting that when he sets his marker down on the table, or jars it when walking on/off the field, that it discharges. When we are creating the potential for injury, to me, that is endangering the industry as a whole. If the insurance community starts getting more claims becuase of 'accidental discharges' or 'over shooting' or whatever, its the field owners who are going to suffer as thier rates increase dramatically. Insurance rate increases are the number 1 reason for field closures. I asked my local field owner what he paid a year in blanket liablity and he would not tell me a number, but he did say "if I was able to put 1/3 of the money that I shell out [for insurance] we would have all those fancy things that some of the bigger fields have."

This statement, and the red, angry face that accompanied it, leads me to believe that he spends an inordinant amount of his cash on this item alone.

What is he to do if the industry becomes too dangerous (and expensive) for us to play it?

Lord Headley · May 6th, 12:51 PM

I’ve been reading A LOT recently because my job is so boring. What I’ve noticed is in almost every magazine, sometimes the same magazine, over the past 2 months, all of them have had articles on cheating. Cheating is becoming a huge problem. Whether it be wiping, cheating boards, playing on, it doesn’t matter. It’s obviously a problem if all the major magazines are doing articles on it, or multi issues articles.

Remember, what we do today, changes the future of paintball. The younger players are looking up to us. APG had a good article called “the ripple effect” which stated this point very clearly. Newbies look up to the vets, and the vets look up to the pros. Vets see pros cheating, figure “why not? They do it, and look how good they are!” Newbies see the vets cheating and think “I wanna be more like him, so I have to cheat to be good” Well, we can’t change the way the pro’s play, but we can change the way we play. Please do not cheat, be honorable. So you might not play as long as you normally would if you get nicked and it happens to break, but you’ll have greater respect for yourself and from other players.

- Brian

**2ffu** · May 6th, 02:50 PM

debounce is unsafe, though ramping is fine because it stops when you stop pulling. and held chronos are not expensive if you play woods with friends, every one should chip in some money to help purchase one.

**1337** · May 6th, 05:04 PM

Whenever I play on private land I get my gun chronoed at the shop when I get air.

And Ian is correct about me. I've played psp event, I know what cheating is like. I use debounce so I guess I cheat, go me.

Do I whipe? Not really. I will sometimes it really depends on the people I'm playing or the situation.

**2ffu** · May 6th, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1337PAINTBALLER

Whenever I play on private land I get my gun chronoed at the shop when I get air.

good point, i sure the shop will chrono your gun fo you when you get air and/or get some paint. the only excuse for not getting a gun chronod is lazyness.

**splatwithhonor3** · May 6th, 07:05 PM

I hate wiping in all levels of play. It takes integrity not to wipe. Everyone has been tempted to wipe at sometime. Getting hit in the foot off the break,by some newb on the otherside sucks. But it happens. You call YOURSELF out. You walk off the field, clean yourself off and learn from your mistake. Wiping takes all of the point out of the game. I'm not going to get into wiping in tournaments, as I do not have tournament experience and therefore don't have much right to open that can of worms, but I still don't approve of it. Last week I had to put 4shots on a guy, before the ref made it over to do a ********** because he would not call out. I am a fairly level headed person and although I can't say I didn't think about bonus balling him on the way out for playing on I restrained myself. If you are going to play on like that you open yourself up to some punishment, and not everybody is going to show restraint.