need help choosing - Paintball Forum - Paintball guns and gear forums
Reply

Old November 28th, 2012, 01:01 AM   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5
need help choosing

Hi everyone, I'm new to paintball, and i need help choosing for my $125 budget. I cannot decide if I should get this Spyder Victor package, Amazon.com: 2012 Spyder Victor Paintball Gun Marker MEGA Package - Olive: Sports & Outdoors or get a Tippman SL68-II with a 9oz co2 tank and a 50 round hopper. i like the SL68-II more because it is pump action and was told it was unique, I chose the Victor as a second choice because its cheaper and comes with more stuff.
AznChimp is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old November 28th, 2012, 01:25 AM   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
ShortBus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 232
For that price I'd get a Hammer 7 from Spyder...
ShortBus is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old November 28th, 2012, 01:40 AM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5
thank you for the reply but my mind is all set for the two.
AznChimp is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old November 28th, 2012, 02:19 AM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
huckduck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,442
don't get the package. the mask is crap. the hopper is crap.

if you're new to paintball, i highly strongly recommend not starting with a pump. waayy too high of a learning curve

The ultimate new player guide to markers, masks tanks and more!!! <--- read this guide. it'll have most of the answers you'll need
huckduck is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old November 28th, 2012, 09:17 AM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
ShortBus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by huckduck View Post
don't get the package. the mask is crap. the hopper is crap.

if you're new to paintball, i highly strongly recommend not starting with a pump. waayy too high of a learning curve

The ultimate new player guide to markers, masks tanks and more!!! <--- read this guide. it'll have most of the answers you'll need
My 14yr old Daughter starting with a pump two years ago, two years later she is a killing machine - I encourage everyone I bring out just starting to play to try out a pump first, if they don't like it, I let them try out a mech and go from there. I usually bring out about 8 guns, SC, OC, BBA, 12g, and regular set ups to let anyone try out for a game or two. The majority of the people who do try it like it - it is a different game than the one going on around you (either woodsball or speedball). We recently held a Pump Tourney, had ten teams (one pulled out last minute due to a three hour drive and snow) and the majority were first time pumpers. Was a great night of play, the speedball teams that fielded a pump team did alright, and the completely new to pump (and the sport) did well too!

We field pump teams in Speedball Tourney's too, we are playing Nationals as a pump team. Nothing wrong with starting out playing pump - I find it is an easier transition to playing mech, or electro after playing pump!

Here is part one of the video if you want to check it out:

ShortBus is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old November 28th, 2012, 06:17 PM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
huckduck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,442
if you're serious about it and committed sure, but i find some people can't even handle recball with semis
huckduck is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old November 28th, 2012, 09:15 PM   #7 (permalink)
Super Legit
 
Trbo323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Washington
Posts: 14,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by AznChimp View Post
Hi everyone, I'm new to paintball, and i need help choosing for my $125 budget. I cannot decide if I should get this Spyder Victor package, Amazon.com: 2012 Spyder Victor Paintball Gun Marker MEGA Package - Olive: Sports & Outdoors or get a Tippman SL68-II with a 9oz co2 tank and a 50 round hopper. i like the SL68-II more because it is pump action and was told it was unique, I chose the Victor as a second choice because its cheaper and comes with more stuff.
sure its unique but only because it is a pump, thats like saying my 95 honda civic is unique because its the only red 95 with 200k on the odometer in the City that i am in.

unique does not mean good

if you are new getting into the sport the pump is going to put you at a disadvantage out of the gates, even rental markers will have an advantage over that. if you want to get into pump thats all fine but i highly suggest waiting until you have a more firm footing in the sport already. on the other hand the spyder victor while an alright marker is really no better than most rentals so if you are thinking about that i say forget it, save up more money for something better and play with rental gear in the mean time. that aside that package is a terrible deal, the victor alone sells for around $60 and the rest of the gear in that package tops out at about $40-$50 worth of stuff. the mask is the worst of which

mask is your most important piece of equipment, not only are they keeping your eyes intact but a crappy one will ruin your day of play. you could have a $2000 marker but if you have a mask on that fogs all day long, does it really matter? you cant shoot what you cant see
__________________
The ultimate new player guide!

^^^If you are new, click here^^^

Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that makes a firearm better makes a paintball marker worse. They are 2 very different worlds with nothing except a trigger in common


Trbo323 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old November 28th, 2012, 10:20 PM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
ShortBus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trbo323 View Post
sure its unique but only because it is a pump, thats like saying my 95 honda civic is unique because its the only red 95 with 200k on the odometer in the City that i am in.

unique does not mean good

if you are new getting into the sport the pump is going to put you at a disadvantage out of the gates, even rental markers will have an advantage over that. if you want to get into pump thats all fine but i highly suggest waiting until you have a more firm footing in the sport already. on the other hand the spyder victor while an alright marker is really no better than most rentals so if you are thinking about that i say forget it, save up more money for something better and play with rental gear in the mean time. that aside that package is a terrible deal, the victor alone sells for around $60 and the rest of the gear in that package tops out at about $40-$50 worth of stuff. the mask is the worst of which

mask is your most important piece of equipment, not only are they keeping your eyes intact but a crappy one will ruin your day of play. you could have a $2000 marker but if you have a mask on that fogs all day long, does it really matter? you cant shoot what you cant see
Why does everyone say playing pump puts you at a disadvantage? I shoot against electro's in tournament play, and most definitely do not feel like I am out gunned. It take absolutely NO skill to spray and pray and lane a guy using 4 pods to get one kill. We practise against D2 teams and have no problem shooting against them in speedball. Why would you tell someone to not try something based on a misconception?
ShortBus is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old November 28th, 2012, 10:35 PM   #9 (permalink)
Elite Member
Image Hosting by Picoodle.com
 
tlmiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: AZ, USA
Posts: 12,033
Simple fact, most new players DO feel outgunned.

Personally speaking, pump is nearly as dull as watching grass grow.
__________________
Yes, I have long since accepted that I have issues, with that said, here's:
Pics of my current markers.

Pics of my current barrels.

Pics of my loaders.
tlmiller is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old November 28th, 2012, 11:22 PM   #10 (permalink)
I'm out of creativity.
 
martix_agent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lafayette/Kokomo Indiana
Posts: 24,267
yea. At my field when all the renters watch speedball their eyes get huge and they start to foam a little at the mouth. It's not that we're mean players, it's just that it's too much for them to comprehend at the time. I could play pump against other speedball players at this point and feel out gunned(but still be in control) but I'm not sure that's what new players want to do.

I'll say that spraying and praying is NOT a good way to play, especially for a beginner. I run 3 mans fairly often and hardly use more than a hopper. I'ma front guy though. I think my back guy uses a pod and a hopper usually. We're not spraying and praying though; it's all about containment. Perhaps this discussion should be saved for another thread.

I'll finish this up by saying that in general, people have the most fun when they're playing with markers of similar capabilities. It's not very fun to be the person who can shoot a ton of paint, if you know the people shooting back at you can not do the same
__________________

Feedback
.
Did it work before?
You screwed with it, didn't you?
Got what you deserve.
martix_agent is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old November 28th, 2012, 11:30 PM   #11 (permalink)
Super Legit
 
Trbo323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Washington
Posts: 14,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortBus View Post
Why does everyone say playing pump puts you at a disadvantage? I shoot against electro's in tournament play, and most definitely do not feel like I am out gunned.
and you are an experienced paintballer, he is a new player

most new players now a days feel outgunned if they have a mechanical and are going up against electros, throwing pump on top of that only makes it worse

im not saying there is anything wrong with pump on its own, its just not something that is great for new players out of the gate. get a firm grip in paintball, then try pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortBus View Post
It take absolutely NO skill to spray and pray and lane a guy using 4 pods to get one kill.
honestly i get tired of hearing this because typically it is out of ignorance more than anything, laning is not about trying to get kills, its about preventing movement much in the same way while playing chess you leave your rook in a certain spot to prevent the pawns from advancing, when one of them is dumb enough to move forward, you take it out but that doesnt mean the 4 pods are a waste at all, thats 4 pods worth of time that the other team was not able to access one side of the field

Quote:
Originally Posted by martix_agent View Post

I'll finish this up by saying that in general, people have the most fun when they're playing with markers of similar capabilities.
i agree, typically i play walk on and limit myself to 1 finger on the trigger if there are a lot of renters, if not i will at least go after the more experienced players first

its actually a lot of fun to play forward, get an elimination or two and then be taken out by a rental. the look on the renter's face is great, he gets to go back to his friends and brag that he took out the "blue guy" in my case
__________________
The ultimate new player guide!

^^^If you are new, click here^^^

Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that makes a firearm better makes a paintball marker worse. They are 2 very different worlds with nothing except a trigger in common


Trbo323 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old November 29th, 2012, 10:02 AM   #12 (permalink)
dprimmy
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trbo323 View Post
i agree, typically i play walk on and limit myself to 1 finger on the trigger if there are a lot of renters, if not i will at least go after the more experienced players first

its actually a lot of fun to play forward, get an elimination or two and then be taken out by a rental. the look on the renter's face is great, he gets to go back to his friends and brag that he took out the "blue guy" in my case
Nobody likes to be lit up - but we all understand that if you get hit once, there are probably 3-5 more rounds that have already left the marker and are on their way - at least when you're playing against more advanced players with electros (and possibly ramping).

I make it a point to find out what firing mode people are playing with, and modify my playstyle accordingly. And if we have a renter on the field, I do very much the same thing that Trbo does. I 1-ball it, play positionally aggressive, and usually lock-in more on the experienced player, allowing the rentals to roam free and get the elimination.

Its all ethics and getting more people involved in the sport. The more money available, the nicer the fields, the better the R&D funds at the marker & mask companies, the larger the demand for gear, and...possibly...lowered production costs, and..maybe..just maybe... everybody but Dye might be able to pass that cost savings on to the player.
View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old November 29th, 2012, 11:22 AM   #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
ShortBus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 232
LOL last sentence is golden!
ShortBus is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old November 29th, 2012, 01:29 PM   #14 (permalink)
Super Legit
 
Trbo323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Washington
Posts: 14,675
you forgot the gardner brothers as well
__________________
The ultimate new player guide!

^^^If you are new, click here^^^

Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that makes a firearm better makes a paintball marker worse. They are 2 very different worlds with nothing except a trigger in common


Trbo323 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old November 29th, 2012, 03:38 PM   #15 (permalink)
dprimmy
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trbo323 View Post
you forgot the gardner brothers as well

Outside their more than clear methodology of milking patents and undercutting everyone because a $200 ion + $112 patent infringement sale on a competator's marker puts it at "what list SHOULD be"...

...don't they make their money on large tolerances, low margins, and high volume of sale in every line but Luxe?
View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old November 29th, 2012, 04:46 PM   #16 (permalink)
Super Legit
 
Trbo323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Washington
Posts: 14,675
ya but the thing is they dont exactly have to pay themselves the e-marker patent fee so assuming producing an unbalanced spool takes around $150 and then for other companies, $100 for the e-marker use, they price the marker at $300 and make $50 on every marker sold, meanwhile SP prices the ion at $250 and makes $100

in all reality i think if the e-marker patent was not an issue then the G brothers would be producing some of the most overpriced markers and dye would even say "well at least our stuff is not priced that high"
__________________
The ultimate new player guide!

^^^If you are new, click here^^^

Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that makes a firearm better makes a paintball marker worse. They are 2 very different worlds with nothing except a trigger in common


Trbo323 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old November 29th, 2012, 04:55 PM   #17 (permalink)
dprimmy
 
Posts: n/a
The thing I will say about SP - they always provided the customer with what they were asking for. Tinkerer's marker that capitalizes on aftermarket parts? 2k2 SP Impulse. Smooth shooting shoebox that had zero air efficiency? Awesome.

MaxFlo...some thought it was the best thing since sliced bread...others..yeah....kinda like a hyper3.


Ion? Again - what's the first question we hear here all the time? "What should I upgrade?" Being old goats here - we know you need to shoot the marker first - but SP hit it out of the park again. Interchangeable parts, upgrade kits. Body and color kits so you're not buying a new marker. "Upgrades"....

While they may as well steal a credit card number from those that purchase the markers - they're giving players exactly what they want - and at a more affordable price-point.

Is their patent milking and market saturation ethical? Not quite Enron or WorldCom, but far from ethical. Moral? Hell no. Business? Sadly...yes.
View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old November 29th, 2012, 05:02 PM   #18 (permalink)
Elite Member
Image Hosting by Picoodle.com
 
tlmiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: AZ, USA
Posts: 12,033
They're not collecting on the patents anymore anyway, they lost those as part of the bankruptcy of Smart Parts.
__________________
Yes, I have long since accepted that I have issues, with that said, here's:
Pics of my current markers.

Pics of my current barrels.

Pics of my loaders.
tlmiller is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old November 29th, 2012, 05:13 PM   #19 (permalink)
Super Legit
 
Trbo323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Washington
Posts: 14,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by dprimmy View Post
The thing I will say about SP - they always provided the customer with what they were asking for.
i asked for them to go to hell.....still have not received that

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlmiller View Post
They're not collecting on the patents anymore anyway, they lost those as part of the bankruptcy of Smart Parts.
where did the patent go then?
__________________
The ultimate new player guide!

^^^If you are new, click here^^^

Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, that makes a firearm better makes a paintball marker worse. They are 2 very different worlds with nothing except a trigger in common


Trbo323 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old November 29th, 2012, 05:16 PM   #20 (permalink)
Elite Member
Image Hosting by Picoodle.com
 
tlmiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: AZ, USA
Posts: 12,033
I've heard several things, not sure which is true.

I've heard:

1. They're now held by a bank that SP owed money to
2. They were purchased by Tippmann
3. They were purchased by...hmmm...it was someone else, not Dye or PE...

I'd love to know what the truth is though, but I read on too many different sources to not believe it that they did lose the patents due to them being in Smart Parts name, not in Gardner Brothers name due to how they had originally filed for the patent.
__________________
Yes, I have long since accepted that I have issues, with that said, here's:
Pics of my current markers.

Pics of my current barrels.

Pics of my loaders.
tlmiller is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums
Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.3.2