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Old June 13th, 2012, 06:52 PM   #1 (permalink)
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help build a Trbo computer!

ok so as much as id like to think i know about computers, when it comes to putting one together i just fail. my main problem is i just cant figure out which parts will work together so this summer I am working full time and saving up for a new computer, I have a 1g video card in my computer already which I would like to keep

beyond that i only have a few perimeters

the screen i am looking at is probably going to be in the 750 range (for photo editing) i would also still like to use my 32" HDTV as a duel screen setup

as for the mother board/proc/ram here is what im looking for

motherboard must have at least 4 seta ports (2 internal terabyte drives, cd drive and eventually a SSD to run the OS)

i can run either 32 or 64 bit windows 7 (have access to both)

for the processor, something in the 3.2htz quad core range, 8gigs DDR3 ram

now the issues, i have the video card and a wireless internet card that i would still like to use but have no idea what socket set they are, how do i find out?

id like to keep the computer itself (minus screen) under $1k if possible but am willing to expand that if i need to

last time i was at Fry's i was rather impressed with their prices, my gf got a computer there last summer and it was way better than anything i was finding on tigerdirect for the same price

Fry's Home Electronics | Computer Parts & Accessories, Software, Games, TVs, Cameras - Frys.com
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Old June 13th, 2012, 07:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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under 1k? this will be easy, especially since you already have an old computer

You'll want a graphics card with two dvi outs, or even a hdmi maybe (mine has a mini hdmi out and it's worthless since i already have a dvi->hdmi cord for my TV) I dont' think it will run sound though. The easy fix is to get a headphone-> RCA splitter at radioshack for like $5.

It sounds to me like you only need a motherboard, CPU, and a power supply(depending on what you're currently using)

your wyfi card should plug into a standard motherboard socket, assuming it's not ancient.

What you need to do, is decide what motherboard you like, then match a CPU to it. You could do it the other way around, but at this point in time, I don't see a massive difference between intel and AMD. I used to only run AMD, but now i'm using a corei5, and it's no noticeable change. After you make those choices, the rest of it pretty much is plug and play

A few questions though:

What are you wanting to use this for?
What is your current graphics card and power supply?
Are you planning on keeping your old computer? if not, you can canabilize the case and disk drives
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Old June 13th, 2012, 07:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Whatever you do, oil submerge that *****

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Old June 13th, 2012, 07:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
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oil cooling is neat, but kinda expensive, and it weighs a TON and you need a radiator
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Old June 13th, 2012, 10:08 PM   #5 (permalink)
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wow, um ya, think ill pass

martix- yes i will be cannibalizing my old system

so with that in mind is there any way of telling what my socket sets are? would the part numbers of my graphics card and wireless adapter help? also this means i have a power supply but how do i know if its good enough or not?

graphics card and wireless card are about 5 years old
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Old June 13th, 2012, 10:13 PM   #6 (permalink)
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5 years should still be PCI-E, but if you know the model numbers, it should tell you right off the bat
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Old June 13th, 2012, 10:14 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The slot that your graphics card sits in should tell you what kind of slot it is. And your graphics card should have some serial numbers on it and a brand name.

The power supply should have a sticker on it indication the output in watts, that's how they are rated
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Old June 13th, 2012, 10:17 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Need a radiator?
I haven't seen one needed for any oil system

And if it's a desktop, how often are you going to move it?
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Old June 13th, 2012, 10:18 PM   #9 (permalink)
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ya but how do i know what kind of power supply i need? or is just a bigger one is better?

ill tear into my computer in a bit, my gf is using it right now
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Old June 13th, 2012, 10:19 PM   #10 (permalink)
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for the new processors, motherboards, and gpus, 500watts minmum
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Old June 13th, 2012, 10:26 PM   #11 (permalink)
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cool thats one of the things i needed to know
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Old June 14th, 2012, 09:40 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Oh geeze..where to start...

For all the help Trbo has given me over the last 7-10 years..


Ok - Motherboards will have a socket number on them. They'll match up to a chip "socket". Example - AM3+ board will work with an AM3 rated processor. An Intel socket LGA1366 will work with an Intel Core i7 processor that specifies socket LGA 1366 (its like Legos...didn't used to be though). Now - specifying speed requirements? I'm of the opinion that its...really not necessary. 3.2ghz doesn't mean what it did 5 years ago in the days of Pentium4 single cores. Multi core processors pretty much have written off the personal perceptions of what a CPU's speed is. Now, it becomes a function of how many processors you can fit on a single piece of silicon. If you look at the marginal gains you'd get from a 2.6 and a 2.8ghz processor, and then look at the several hundred dollar price difference... hell.. I play paintball too.. I need money for paint!...I don't need to go 200mhz (per core) faster...THAT badly.

Intel is faster and nicer, AMD is more budget oriented. My personal suggestions - Budget... Either look into AMD's 6 or more core CPU's (I run a 1090t) or Intel's core i7. The 5 (think it was the 2500k) is just as capable, but if the objective is system longevity, the i7 is going to have enough "room" to push you for ...I predict.. a good 3-5 years before slowing down.

now - Cooling. Fan cooling is noisy, crappy, and requires maintenance (cleaning). Why bother? Corsair has a VERY nice alternative. Closed circuit water cooling. There's no water work, no maintenance, and you can throw your own QUIET AS HELL 120mm fans to push and pull air through the radiator. Its really, no louder than a small fish pump...mine's quiet enough that I don't hear it over the video card fan. Easy to install, take up a moderate amount of space..but for quiet factor? I wouldn't go any other way. (personally own an H70). Water cooling provides more consistent temperature operation levels for CPU's..and I've found it limits/eliminates rapid spikes, and reduces operating temperatures significantly. I've personally witnessed as much as a 30C load (at 1hr run time) difference at 100% CPU use on a 955Black (3.2ghz quad core AMD cpu)



RAM - Corsair brand (yes..I"m a bit of a fanboy - but they're the Dye of the computer industry. Treat their customers well, fast RMA returns, easy to handle customer service). Get as many gig across as few sticks as possible. I've used XMS and Vengeance series. I've had fewer issues with Vengeance. DDR3 - matched speed to your board speed. Right now CAS 9 is the common ram latency - 7 is nice..but not worth the additional money to make it happen.

SATA connectors - DOn't worry about them. My newest board has..10? on it. Unless you're looking at a smaller than "tower" format for a computer system, you'll be hard pressed to not find at least 6 on there.

Power Supply - Its a function of how clean the quality of power coming in is .. versus what you're trying to run. A 500watt power supply with 80% efficiency...I would trust with...pretty much a stock "Dell" setup. You don't NEED huge over-the-top space...but it provides flexibility. It also helps prevent wonky power related issues. An under powered video card will produce weird errors when stressed or taxed. Single card? 650 recommended. more than 1 card running in xFire or SLI? I'd say no less than 800. Learned my lesson trying to play it with 650.

CTD - Rails. Power rails...most power supplies have 2 (from what i've seen). Now.. You have an 800 watt honker power supply, you plug it in, you daisy chain everything using as few power connectors as possible - and...your system has weird problems and $hits its self frequently... There's a reason for this.... Your power supply is using 2x 400 watt rails to deliver 800 watts of power. You're probably trying to run everything off a 400 watt rail. 120 for the CPU, 50 for the board, 150 for the video card... and... well.. you see where I"m going here. 400 unused watts, and 398 watts pulled from another rail..that's only rated 80% efficient, coming from an unclean wall socket...and icky things happen. (random restarts, component failure, power starved video cards..etc)...but it only happens under load...and conditions are hard to duplicate, as you never know when your CPU will fire up to run some 100 watt process while your video card is rendering something at 100% consumption. ALWAYS make sure to try and split your CPU and GPU up, and leave them on separate rails. The other reason to buy big - if you use the math I used earlier... and you buy a 650 watt supply, and you split the board and cpu and optical/hard disks onto one rail, and you run your fans and lights and video cards on the other.. you may have 120 watts left over...but none of it usable because 85 is on Rail1, and 35 is on rail2...but the video card you want to add requires 100. Complex-simple stuff.

TL;DR - 1 video card. Nice Bronze rated 650 watt supply on 2 rails (I like Thermaltake and ..again...Corsair) 2 video cards. Nice Bronze..maybe Silver rated 800watt supply on 2 rails.

Video Card - you have a 1G video card? Dollar value? Video cards are currently going through a multi-multi core revolution, driving the prices of the Radeon/AMD 6000 series and the Nvidia 500 series down to average consumer level. These cards support SLI/xFire, and are pretty much worlds ahead of a card released 2-3 years ago. Its...sad to think that the ATI HD 4870 I bought for 300 dollars..a few years back..gets ROFLstomped by some new..middle of the road card. I won't go too deep with these, as I know you use it for graphic design..and I'm a gamer. I can give a numbering system scheme if requested to do so.

Optical - $25 ASUS OEM are nice. Avoid the Samsung ones in that price bracket. I have had more issues and dead drives trying to use that brand and brand name.... don't wanna talk about it...

Did I miss anything?
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Old June 14th, 2012, 11:34 AM   #13 (permalink)
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here is the motherboard that is currently in my system

ASUS P5KPL-AM SE Motherboard - Intel G31, Socket 775, µATX, Audio, Video, PCI Express, 10/100 LAN, USB 2.0, Serial ATA at TigerDirect.com

video card is a nvidia geforce 9500 GT

if im reading the sticker on the side of my power supply right its a 400 watt power supply

dp-i have questions but i will have to wait to get to work to type them up
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Old June 14th, 2012, 11:37 AM   #14 (permalink)
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775 was a socket T..

Was that paired with a Pentium D? or more likely a Core2Duo?


We're looking at a board replacement, right?


These should help:





Last edited by dprimmy : June 14th, 2012 at 11:51 AM.
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Old June 14th, 2012, 12:51 PM   #15 (permalink)
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ok so im fairly certain the video card is a PCI express x16 and the wireless internet card is a PCI connection

if you click on the link i posted above, the video card is in the blue slot and the wireless internet in the white one under it.

so IF all that is correct, would these work then

CPU

AMD FD6100WMGUSBX FX-6100 Processor - Six Core, 8MB L3 Cache, 6MB L2 Cache, 3.30GHz (3.90GHz Max Turbo), Socket AM3+, 95W, Fan, Unlocked, Retail at TigerDirect.com

motherboard

ASUS M5A97 AMD 9 Series AM3+ Motherboard - ATX, Socket AM3+, AMD 970 Chipset, 2133MHz DDR3 (O.C.), SATA 6.0 Gb/s, 8-CH Audio, Gigabit LAN, SuperSpeed USB 3.0, CrossFireX Ready at TigerDirect.com

and still be able to plug the graphics card and wireless internet into?
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Old June 14th, 2012, 01:03 PM   #16 (permalink)
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here is the guts of my computer





im still waiting on the power supply photo to get through to my email but there is a 400w number on the side so im thinking im going to need a new one anyway
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Old June 14th, 2012, 01:11 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Short answer - Yes.


Long Answer -

I tend to like to spend about 130-165 on a board. Reason: Features. The motherboard - will do what you've explained you desire it to do. 6 headers, 2 PCI slots for expansion.

Downside to the board - configuration. Most current video cards are double-height cards and have cooling sleeves over the top of them. If you look at how the slats on the back of your machine line up, and then look at the board again - you will have 2 PCIe x16 video, 1-PCI slot and 1-PCIe 1x slot...as the double high video cards block access to the other slots. If you never intend to use xFire (2 AMD cards in tandem....meaning you'd have to move away from your GeForce cards too...as I didn't see mention of SLI support), and you don't intend to build "into" the board and adding ...say a second PCI card for additional SATA ports... this will do you nicely. Also - if you fully intend to SLI/XFIRE you may wish to look at a board that supports 2x 16x slots. I'll have to look more intently at your board...but a lot of boards lower than the $150 price point have 2 x 16x slots, but when you throw two cards in, the bottom slot becomes 4x....it still provides performance benefit, but ..wow i'm rusty... I believe in a 16x & 4x arrangement...they have the 16x card used for output, and the 4x slave card is just utilized for number crunching...wow..I should look into this again so I"m not feeding you crap.

Bottom Line: If you're looking for something to grow into - you can probably do better for about 30% more. If you just want something to set & forget in your initial configuration - this will do nicely.


The CPU is pretty much the equal of the one I'm running, except you have an optional onboard video controller that'll provide better than "Intel extreme HD 3000" graphics. In the event your card goes down, (and honestly, the onboard may trump your current card)you have an instant backup option.

Downside: its not an Intel. They're quick. They're nice. They don't throttle as efficiently, and they're not as efficient at splitting the per-thread work...but they're 1/3 of the price.


Bottom line - If you want performance...intel is the way to go. If you are budget building - AMD. AMD will not disappoint you, but it also won't WOW you either.

Afterthought - Water cool either option. H80 or whatever the new cooler is.


More on the power supply and junk when I get back from lunch.
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Old June 14th, 2012, 01:40 PM   #18 (permalink)
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agreed on corsair ram though. i'm not big on hardware, but all the ram i ever used to upgrade everything ive ever owned has been corsair
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Old June 14th, 2012, 01:51 PM   #19 (permalink)
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alright....most of that confused me but here is what im looking to do with this computer

set it up from the get go to be better than my current setup (not hard) but leave room for expansion of ram and the video card later on my big push with the video card is this

Amazon.com: LCD Display - Tft Active Matrix - 27 Inch - 2560 X 1440 - 300CD/M2 - 5 Ms: Computers & Accessories

or something along these lines and it will be in a duel monitor setup the other monitor being my 32" HDTV

6 sata ports is fine, currently i have 2 but need for 3 and i would like to move to a SSD for the OS as well meaning 1 sata for the SSD, 1 for the cd drive and 2 for my HDDs

so for the motherboard would something along these lines work better?

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...472&CatId=7248

does that leave enough room for the video card?

speaking of a SSD, what size would you think i need to mainly run windows 7 off of?

side question, i was looking around at intel CPUs just for comparison, and the numbers on this one seem similar to the AMD i found earlier

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...257&CatId=5962

so then why is it about $500 more?

also, 3.3htz 6 core or 3.1htz 8 core?

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...958&CatId=7341
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Old June 14th, 2012, 02:29 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Disclaimer - I know I write novellas - if something isn't clear - ASK...I'll do my best to either explain it, or find a comparable medium. Yes, I'm a tech oriented individual - but I work to help you understanding WHY something happens... as opposed to being the elitest GeekSquad D-bag who looks at you funny, coughs, and highlights your stupidity.


Hmm... Ok.


I need to know where you would like to see your PC in 1.5 to 2 years. Do you want to tweak/add/multiply/increase/etc? Or is this a "set and forget" situation with room to upgrade at leisure?


The board you showed me - You'll have the ability to expand your ram up to 32 gig across 4 slots (8 gig cards per slot). You WILL need a 64 bit OS to expand beyond 4gb. You'll be able to upgrade your video card at your leisure..possibly to 2 of the same card for additional performance. It supports SATA well enough to provide you 6 connectors, the ability to add another SATA expansion card (if you skip on one of the video cards), a wifi card (though these primarily have gone USB, and your current card may not have drivers written for a 64 bit OS or Win7 dependent on age - check manufacturer site first), and has 2-3 USB jumpers for the front of the case (front-mount USB ports). If you don't care to add much outside of this.. or want little more from your rig than this... your proposed board is fine.

This board and rig idea should be able to handle light-to-moderate gaming, image rendering at good speed, and act as a multi-media machine if you were to so desire. This is something I'd be comfortable putting together for my teenage/college age cousin.

If you wanted to expand to something more "game & performance oriented", you're going to want to pick a better board, or possibly switch to Intel, so you have a more firm starting platform to move from. (in paintball language - PRR w/ upgrades, or stock DM12?)



Other Notes -


Power Supply -

One thing I forgot to mention about them - More than 3 years old? Don't use it in a new build. Odds are its missing some of the newer connector types (like 4 and 8 pin CPU connectors). Beyond that - this is the tank regulator for your system. Bad reg? Blown system. Good regulator? no issues. You don't put a 3 year used reg on a new tank and $1200 marker...because there's a bigger potential for failure due to wearing out. Buy new for any new build you perform.

SSD -

I have multiple SSD's I've played around with. I currently own and use Intel, Kingston, and Corsair SSD's. If you choose to go this route - bite the bullet and buy a minimum of 120gig across 1 drive.

Misconception - SSD platform's advantage is it doesn't have moving parts. This means - it doesn't have seek times (sorta). So, there isn't a needle moving back and forth across a drive platter, searching for your fav adult flick you pick up from some torrent site.... it knows where the file lives, and gets it. No perceivable delay. This is GREAT for program loads and boot times. When you're searching for millions of little files - these drives shine. For linear reads and writes (4gb movie for example)...no real benefit. It uses the SAME SATA interface that every other drive uses. Its going to have write times close enough to current SATA mechanical hard disks - that you won't notice enough of a difference to justify the 10x higher price per gigabyte.

Downfall - MTF (mean time to failure). Meaning - its not "if" your drive will lose its integrity - its when. They're rated in hours...and really should be rated in writes. The more write operations are performed, the faster the drive wears out. What this means - is that the drive, from day 1, is working to self destruct.

now, my opinion - I've purchased 40, 80 and 120 gig SSD's. I've run them in 3 different systems. I've run them in RAID, I've run them as OS drives. I've run them as program drives.... and I currently use them to house WoW, Diablo, and SC2. Why? Because I got tired of intermittent hiccups with my operating systems. They're fine for awhile, but it always seems that these drives drop data at the least convenient times. You also have to run disk maintenance to keep the data moving to different areas of the drive (1x per week or 1x per month depending on frequency of use). Forgive me, PC gods... but this was cool to do when I was 17. Tweak, tune, perfect, and make it run all slick and shiny. I'm at a point where I don't want to monkey with this stuff anymore. Sadly - I'm starting to agree...more and more..with the Apple ideology behind personal computing - "It should just work".

What I'd suggest - Skip the SSD all together and look at Western Digital Black drives. They are much more expensive, but have 2 drive controllers onboard. When compared to standard "deal" drives - these things eat them up in seek and access times. No - they're not SSD's...but they also don't have problems. I run 4 in my primary, and 1 in my secondary.

If your head is stuck on SSD - go Intel. Everyone else has issues with slowdown, as they don't look to have TRIM technology, and the drives and libraries become cluttered quickly - negating the reason for the purchase in the first place.

Last edited by dprimmy : June 14th, 2012 at 02:34 PM.
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