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Old June 9th, 2004, 02:56 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Arrow About accuracy

Ok, this is to stop these threads before they start. Here is waht you need to know about barrel length and accuracy.

To achieve the best accuracy you can, it isn't about a 21 inch barrel, it is about paint to barrel match. What is paint to barrel match you ask? Its simple.

Say that your paint is .684, then you shouldn't use a .693 barrel, that is a bad match.
But when your paint is .688, your .689 barrel is what you want to use.

"I use a lot of paint, some of different size, what barrel should I get?"

Get a barrel kit. A barrel kit contains multiple barrel backs, all of a different bore size. Perfect for a player who uses all kinds of different paint.

"Well a 21 inch barrel is more accurate. That is totally false."

A 21 inch barrel will not make you more accurate. You will end up looking like a dork. You will not be a sniper with it. Its about paint to barrel match.

"What length should I get?"

Simple. It depends on what type of ball you play. Airball, I reccomend a 16 or 18 inch barrel to push the bunkers. If you are a front player, a 12 inch is what you want to stay tight. I play with a 14 inch barrel, not too long and not too short. I like it perfect.

"This barrel shoots farther than the other barrel"

So wrong. Distance trveled is dictated by gun velocity. Not the barrel.



PM me with any info I should add.
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Old June 9th, 2004, 03:06 AM   #2 (permalink)
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You should mention rifled barrels, definetly.

Post a link to a barrel chart and a paint chart.

Explain what a barrel kit is, better. Sorta hard to understand if you don't know what a kit is already. Also mention the price difference... don't get a poor newb's hopes up.

And, of course, fix any and all grammar and spelling errors.
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Old June 9th, 2004, 03:11 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Post info on whatever you think needs to be put. You won't "steal my thunder"
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Old June 9th, 2004, 03:18 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Old June 9th, 2004, 12:16 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Hmm I can add one thing real quick Its my own version of the blow test.

First off, you should have a rough idea of what bore size the paint is, if you have no idea ask the shop-owner, most of the time they know about what its supposed to be.

Take the nearest bore insert (back) you have and insert a ball into it. If it falls through, note it. If it stays in the back of the barrel note that. If it does stay inside the barrel, I do two diff things. The first thing I do it hold into the back of the barrel, were the ball is sitting, and flick it forward real fast. I use that to simulate running with the gun and having your elbow flex. Next, I blow on it, not a steady push, but a nice POP, and the balls should come right out onto your hand. IF it doesnt, push it a tad w/you finger, remember the balls arent perfectly round. Try it again, still no go? Bust out the squegie.... Now, do the same thing with about 10 diff balls, from diff bags if you can (some paint comes with ties, some are sealed) and mark it down. Also, use balls from the top AND bottom of the bag.

If more than any 2 rolled out, go down one bore size. Repeat above.

If less that 2 rolled out, note that bore size and the one just bigger. Try the bigger one with the same test, and see if you can get optimized results, if not, ya got the best match you are gonna get.


I usually like to redo the match everytime I switch bags, the exception of course being when I shoot more than 500 a game and have to mix it up
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Old June 9th, 2004, 01:09 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I have somthing t add Barber,

The longer the barrel, the shorter your paint will fly! Why? you ask. it is simple

Paintball markers are not real guns, they do not use a controlled explosion to propel the projectile. Paintball markers use Compressed Air, or Co2. once the trigger is pulled, a burst of compressed air or Co2 is released, but it does not keep flowing until your paintball leaves the barrel. Since their is only a short burst of the Propellant (comprssed air or Co2) the friction on the barrel will slow it down as it travels down the barrel. So, if you have a 21 inch barrel with a .689 bore, using .688 paint, there would be more friction than if you shot you paint through a 12 inch barrel with a .689 bore using the same paint. More friction = less distance.

So in conclusion, the longer the barrel, the more friction, the shorter the paint flight.
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Old June 9th, 2004, 02:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
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(I'm currently compiling a barrel size/price/features/etc list. I'll have it up when it's finished.)
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Old June 9th, 2004, 09:51 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Paint this
I have somthing t add Barber,

The longer the barrel, the shorter your paint will fly! Why? you ask. it is simple

Paintball markers are not real guns, they do not use a controlled explosion to propel the projectile. Paintball markers use Compressed Air, or Co2. once the trigger is pulled, a burst of compressed air or Co2 is released, but it does not keep flowing until your paintball leaves the barrel. Since their is only a short burst of the Propellant (comprssed air or Co2) the friction on the barrel will slow it down as it travels down the barrel. So, if you have a 21 inch barrel with a .689 bore, using .688 paint, there would be more friction than if you shot you paint through a 12 inch barrel with a .689 bore using the same paint. More friction = less distance.

So in conclusion, the longer the barrel, the more friction, the shorter the paint flight.
Well that only works if all guns didnt chrono at the same speed. That is why when you switch barrels you re-chrono the gun. If everyone shoots at 290 the balls go the same distance regardless of barrel length, its the same way in rifles. Not to mention, that in 95% of barrels, the paint only contacts about the first 6 inches of it, the rest is called "free bore" and the ball simply passes through it without major contact. That is why barrel kits and inserts work the way they do. If you take a boomstick and hack off the aluminum, the paint shoots exactly the same, its just alot louder.
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Old June 10th, 2004, 01:54 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I'd like to add that porting does nothing to help accuracy. It assists in reducing the POP sound as the paintball leaves the barrel, leading to a quieter shot. Keep in mind also that the effective length of barrel for PB acceleration is to the beginning of the porting. After the PB passes this the extra pressure behind the ball starts to bleed off, no longer accelerating the PB as much if any.
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Old June 11th, 2004, 11:37 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I dont really know much about flatline barrels, but i think someone should put something bout those in here
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Old June 12th, 2004, 12:00 AM   #11 (permalink)
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There are many things that can effect accuracy, and these things can also effect efficiency. Where to start. I'll start by saying that I spent about a half hour posting a really long post explaining all of this before the hack. Here we go again...

Barrel Length - This is a big factor when it comes to accuracy. Try to keep the length of any barrel, for just about any player, inbetween 12in. - 16in. After the first 8in. of any barrel, the paintball starts to lose it's velocity once it is shot past this point. After this point, the paintball starts to bounce around in the barrel. If the barrel is longer than 16in., it will start to get very noticeable in both accuracy, and efficiency of the marker. Since the paintball loses velocity after a certain point once it is shot, this means that you need to crank up the marker's velocity/airflow to keep the paintball at the desired velocity once it is out of the barrel. This makes your makrer less efficent. Most people would think that longer barrels are more accurate, this is wrong. The longer the barrel, to most, it will seem like it is easier to aim with the end of the barrel, and correct the last shot for the next shot to be more accurate. It is merely an illusion.

Paint To Barrel Match - This is also a big thing when it comes to accuracy. This deals with the paintballs caliber, and the barrel's bore size. If the two match up together well, you will have good accuracy. If the paintball's caliber is at the most, .002 less than the barrel's bore, or, dead on with it, it will be fine. Any less than that, and the gas will be able to surpass the paintball in the barrel once it is shot causing it to bounce around in the barrel making it less accurate, and maybe even being able to chop. Any more than the barrel's bore size, and the paintball could chop on it's way through due to high amounts of friction. If you are not sure of the sizes, try this, take your barrel, and drop a brand of paintball that you will be using with it into the barrel. If it slides out the other end, it's not the best match. If it gets stuck inside, but can easily be blown out the other end with little force behind it, then it's good. If it takes a little force to blow it out, it's not the best match. Or you can put a paintball inside the barrel, and look through the one end. If there is alot of light showing around the ball, it's bad, if not, it's pretty good.

Velocity - This one should be obvious to anybody. If it is too low, you will have to aim your marker more upward to reach your target, and there is little hope that the paintball will even break once it hits. Too high, and you may start to notice the paintball start to curve drastically once it's shot through the air, or you may even get some chops on it's way though the barrel. This would also hurt your opponent. Just chrono before every game.

Porting - Different barrels have different styles of porting. Some have porting that just goes straight through the barrel, some go spiraling around the barrel, and give the paintball a spin once it' shot out because of the airflow behind it. I wouldn't think there is a better style. If the porting starts too close to the back end of the barrel, the paintball may not get it's full velocity on it's way though before gas starts to escape through the porting. More porting usually means a quieter shot. Less, or none at all usually means a louder shot.

The Barrel's Inside Bore - Make sure that you keep your barrel squeeged good so there is no, or little paint and debris left inside the barrel which will effect accuracy.

The Paintball Itself - Some may not be as round as others. Some may be too brittle, and chop/break easier, or too hard, and not break at all. Some may even form dents in them.
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Old June 12th, 2004, 06:49 PM   #12 (permalink)
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i got a question i have a barrel kit with five backs what if i find a ball size that dosent match any bore size exactly if i use the closest size bore i have will my accuracy be good or bad or somewhere in between
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Old June 12th, 2004, 06:59 PM   #13 (permalink)
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it depends if the closet bore size is smaller or bigger than the ball
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Old June 12th, 2004, 07:11 PM   #14 (permalink)
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also something everyone whould know is that studies were done with a clear barrel and the studies showed that the ball only traveled the first 8-12 inches of the barrel and that everything after the first 12 inches only slows the ball down

also sometimes you get balls that do corkscresws and curve here and there when they come out those are caused by gaps between the ball and the inside of the barrel. air cups the ball and pushes it out of the barrel any gaps that exist allow air to push the ball in a different direstion in the barrel. for example if there is a gap in the barrel between the ball and inside of the barrel the air will push it up the side of the barrel and make it do a corkscrew inside the barrel. the ball will follow the pattern as it comes out ot the barrel. ultimately this is caused by a bad match between the ball size and the barrel size
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i remember once my friend had some paint that smelled and tasted like zebra gum so we ate it, no lie
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Old June 13th, 2004, 04:59 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Does anyone have a chart of paintball sizes? if you do please post it.
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Old June 14th, 2004, 01:43 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Whats a good cheap(i know theyre already expensive) barrel kit? I was looking at the Evil Pipe kit. And spedhunter, where in annapolis do you live? Thats wher I'm form...
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Old June 14th, 2004, 08:22 PM   #17 (permalink)
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i dont live in annapolis i live in crofton but the rest of my team does thats if thats where u got the info from my sn here is my sn on aim give me a ring
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Old June 14th, 2004, 11:23 PM   #18 (permalink)
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i need a cheap barrel thats good in quality and is 14''
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Old June 15th, 2004, 10:24 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Barrel length DOES affect accuracy.

Taken from Automags.org, one of the best websites out there for technical information about paintball markers and the physics behind it:

Barrels are only there to accelerate the ball from a standstill to 300 fps. In theory they also help with accuracy but that's another post. The ball goes through incredible acceleration on its way down the barrel. The balls acceleration rate is approx. 50,000 feet per second to get to 300 feet per second in 10 inches. The entire barrel travel time is about 6 thousandths of a second and this means the ball is seeing about 1500 G's when its getting pushed out the gun. Although this may sound incredible if someone out there would like to do the math you will see that I'm close.

Air pressure behind the ball is what causes this acceleration to happen. This pressure varies between the different guns but is generally between 50 to 125 pounds per square inch at its peak. The air pressure peaks right when the ball starts moving down the barrel, after that, the ball moving down the barrel creates a bigger chamber so the pressure drops. This is why low pressure guns are a myth, in reality all guns shoot at considerably lower pressure than 200 psi.

Peak pressures above 150 psi tends to break balls down the barrel due to really high acceleration and G forces. If you don't have any way to control the peak pressure behind the ball, the only way you can change it is to go with lower pressure in the air chamber, hence low pressure guns. AGD uses the precise contour of the power tube tip to release air in a controlled manner behind the ball to limit peak pressures to around 60-80 psi..

It is simple to understand that the harder you push something the faster it will accelerate and get up to speed in a shorter distance. So what distance do we have to get the ball up to speed? The effective length of the barrel is from the balls position before it's fired, to the place in the barrel where the pressure gets released, This is usually at the first porting holes or the step in the barrel. Porting is there to release gas pressure!! You are effectively stopping the acceleration at the ports so your 14" barrel that is half full of holes only has an effective length of 7".

Now we understand that we need to limit the peak pressure behind the ball to keep it from blowing up, and that the pressure drops as the ball moves down the barrel. The next question we need to ask is, how far down the barrel does the ball have to go before the pressure gets to low to do anything useful? That answer is 8-10 inches. We know this from looking at the graphs that our gun dyno puts out. If your peak pressure is higher, say over 100 psi you can get away with a shorter barrel, if it's lower then you need a longer barrel. Since AGD is the only gun manufacturer to actually test their pressures behind the ball you might have a hard time getting this info for other guns.

So as far as our guns are concerned, the best efficiency would be had with an 8-10" effective length barrel. Since two piece ported barrels with an effective length of about 5-6" are the rage right now you hear a lot of complaints about gas efficiency. Under some circumstances there is a good reason to use a short effective length barrel. Short barrels cut off the acceleration abruptly by venting and this has the effect of tightening up the shot to shot velocity variation. If you need this at the expense of efficiency then go ahead. Tighter velocity control usually translates into some improvement in accuracy due to better consistency.

So if you want the best of all worlds, limit your peak pressure, let your ball accelerate all it wants, don't follow the crowd and keep asking questions.



Length DOES affect accuracy. The longer your barrel is (beyond the 7" with porting), the more length of barrel your paintball is rubbing against before it is released into the air and towards the target. Not to mention that you will be using MORE gas to push the paintball this extra (and unnecessary) distance.
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Old June 15th, 2004, 10:33 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by paintballer05
Does anyone have a chart of paintball sizes? if you do please post it.
I've got the major brands here, but by no means all. If someone PM's me with the ones I'm missing I'll edit my post and add them to it's more complete

ALL PAINT IS CATEGORIZED BY THE FOLLOWING:

1. Paint Brand
2. Bore Match
3. Bore Category
4. Quality




1. Brass Eagle
2 .674-.705
3. Large
4. Poor seams, often old

1. Brass Eagle Top Brass
2. .689-.691
3. Medium
4. Often old

1. Diablo Blaze
2. .689-.690
3. Medium
4. Recent shipments have been very small .684

1. Diablo Brand X
2. .692-.694
3. Large


1. Diablo Hell Fire
2. .684
3. Small


1. Diablo Inferno
2. .687-.688
3. Small


1. Great American
2. .688-.689
3. Medium
4. Poor seams, Soft Shell, many broken in cases.

1. Kick'N Premium
2. .689-.692
3. Medium


1. Kick'N Rage
2. .688-.689
3. Medium

1. Kick'N Metalix
2. .687-.688
3. Small

1. Nelson Challenger
2. .691-.693
3. Large
4. Poor seams

1. Nelson Gold
2. .691-.693
3. Large


1. PMS 1st Choice
2. .692-.694
3. Large
4. Soft Shell, often broken in cases

1. Power Ball
2. .689-.690
3. Medium


1. Pro Ball
2. .687
3. Small


1. Pro Ball Evil
2. .685
3. Small


1. Pro Ball Lite
2. .688-.689
3. Medium


1. Pro Ball Platinum
2. .687
3. Small

1. PMI / RP All Star
2. .684
3. Small


1. PMI / RP Big Ball
2. .689-.690
3. Medium
4. Hard shell often bounces

1. PMI / RP Gold
2. .689-.690
3. Medium


1. PMI / RP Marbalizer
2. .687
3. Small

1. PMI / RP Premium
2. .689-.690
3. Medium


1. Sheridan Ball
2. .689-.691
3. Medium
4. Often old

1. Smart Paint
2. .689-.691
3. Medium


1. Zap Pro
2. .688
3. Medium


1. Zap Pro Sport
2. .689-.690
3. Medium


1. Zap Select
2. .689-.690
3. Medium
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Old June 15th, 2004, 10:49 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Sorry for the triple post......I'm getting a barrel-size chart together, I'll post that tomorrow since it'll take me a while to type it all.

Hope you guys enjoy the paint size charts
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Old June 16th, 2004, 07:14 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Lapco Bigshot - .689
Lapco Autospirit - .687
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Old June 16th, 2004, 10:29 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by DuoDSG
Sorry for the triple post......I'm getting a barrel-size chart together, I'll post that tomorrow since it'll take me a while to type it all.

Hope you guys enjoy the paint size charts
sorry duo but your barrel chart is good but it has flaws. In my experience medium bore is .689 to .688 so premiums arent medium bore, they are usually .692 or .691, small bore is .687 and lower, big bore is .690 and higher.

Also about accuracy, you forgot a major factor. Consistancy, yes High pressure air and a good reg will help A LOT. Also consistacy of the paintballs helps, like if you mix and match premiums with inferno you're gonna have different bore sizes, so you need to get good paint which has consistant diameter with each paintball. For the purpose I just mentioned I would recommend RPS, they have cellulose powder in their shells which makes the shells able to be rounder and made to a higher tolerancy, also the cellulose helps to prevent swelling, so these balls will stand up to bad conditions much better. Also 18 is definitely too long, and to add on to what duo said there were tests with like and ultralite or boomstick of different lengths showing that the shorter ones were more accurate.

So paint to bore match isnt the only thing
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Old June 16th, 2004, 01:01 PM   #24 (permalink)
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They may have changed the size of PMI Premiums recently with the new advantage shell. Of the 3 boxes I've tried they have all been too small for my Bigshot and just a hair small for my .687 Autospirit.

Quote:
Originally posted by sNoW PIrAnHa
sorry duo but your barrel chart is good but it has flaws. In my experience medium bore is .689 to .688 so premiums arent medium bore, they are usually .692 or .691, small bore is .687 and lower, big bore is .690 and higher.
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Old June 16th, 2004, 01:13 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Javaman
They may have changed the size of PMI Premiums recently with the new advantage shell. Of the 3 boxes I've tried they have all been too small for my Bigshot and just a hair small for my .687 Autospirit.
Weird, most RPS paint is usually too big for my teardrop. Maybe people are opening the boxes of premiums and putting in different balls that are smaller. I guess it varies, but still all the RPS paint I've used besides marbs and evil ultra are too big for my teardrop.
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