Operation: Low Pressure - Paintball Forum - Paintball guns and gear forums

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Old June 15th, 2005, 10:56 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Operation: Low Pressure

Alright. i am converting my Pilot over to Low Pressure. So far, I have got a CP regulator, a 15* Assault Block, and am planning on getting either a NDZ, AKA, or Maddman Valve. I have a 32* spring kit, and I was wondering what is the best combination of the springs will help me have the greatest efficiency, but yet, maintain a constant velocity at the chrono.

I am planning on getting the valve soon, and installing it, the CP reg, and the Assault block, all at the same time. I run a 90/4500 HP Worr Gas tank, and I was hoping that you guys could help me out on hat would be the best setup with my items right now as far as which springs I should use to help me out in my Low Pressure operation.

Also, which of these three Valve is the best:
- Maddman Rocket Valve
- AKA Tornado Valve
- NDZ High Flow Valve

**money is not an issue - I have a good job as of now**

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
- Junkie
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Old June 15th, 2005, 11:53 AM   #2 (permalink)
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From Otter's LP Project writeup.

Stock Valve 275fps
Modified Stock Valve 285fps
AKA Tornado Valve 294fps
New Designz Valve 288fps

You can read the full and complete page and all the data from the test rig on his site.
http://www.ottersccustoms.com/project.html
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Old June 15th, 2005, 03:45 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
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up?

Any more opinions or ideas on how I can achieve the best low pressure operation?
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Old June 15th, 2005, 04:44 PM   #4 (permalink)
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For best opperation dont go low pressure.
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Old June 15th, 2005, 06:05 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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-_-

Okay. No more comments like that. I have already done hours upon hours of research for going low pressure. I have used about three different sites and put in about 5 hours of studying and therefore, I am still going Low pressure. Don't come on here and tell me not to. I didn't ask peoples opinions of whether or not I should do it. I asked for the best possible spring combinations and parts that will help me achieve maximum performance while using low pressure.

Now, any more input is greatly appreciated.

- Junkie
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Old June 15th, 2005, 10:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Do what you want its your gun and your money. But your not going to benefit off low pressure its only going to take time and money and you wont notice much of a difference. If you dont want to take my advice then dont, but I know my spyders. If you dont want peoples opinions dont post on a paintball forum.
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Old June 15th, 2005, 10:42 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Low pressure, set up in the right way, which I am doing, will help reduce the amount of air used when playing and help to make the gun more efficient. Which is something I need since the nearest place to get my Nitrogen filled is 35 miles away. I need to set my gun up this way so that I don't use my air wastefully. Im sorry that you dont feel the same way about low pressure but I am setting tit up this way for efficientcy.

- Junkie
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Old June 15th, 2005, 11:05 PM   #8 (permalink)
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The operating pressure of a gun has nothing to do with efficiency. Its the way that you set up the gun according to the pressure. So you could set up you gun to be most effiecient at the current pressure and not waste the money of making your gun LP. Even if you make your gun as efficient and possible which is very unlikely you wont notice much of a difference considering spyders are quite efficient stock.
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Old June 15th, 2005, 11:12 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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The Stock opperating pressure for a spyder is 800 psi. With a new valve, I can lower that to a range between 200-400 psi. In doing this, say I put my reg to operate at 285 psi, It will be more efficient than running my gun stock at 800 psi. It will use less air, because the opperating pressure is now lower (285 instead of 800) I need a valve however to lower the opperating pressure and therefore, allow the regulator to work, because the CP reg has a max output pressure of 600 psi. Since a spyder runs off of 800 psi, using the reg without a new valve would strave the gun of air, and that is not good, which you most likely know. Therefore I am gettign a new valve, to lower the opperating pressure to around 250-300 psi, so that, in fact, it will be more efficient in the case of using less air to opperate. I have done much research about this and I know what I'm tlaking about. I am still converting to low pressure, and this topic was about which vlave would be the best for myself to buy for the money. Please, I am not changing my mind on the idea of going LP, so would you give me help on what I can do to get the best performance out of LP parts instead of saying," low pressure sucks, don't do it."

Thanks,
- Junkie
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Old June 16th, 2005, 02:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Well I'm sorry I clutterd your thread. Its your money and your gun. Might as well try a little experiment, test how many shots you get now and how many you get after you do your lp mod. Help the forum out. Also to contribute to your cause spring settings to be most effieint(sp) will very from what pressure your gun will run. Hammer wieght is also a factor.



Oringinaly posted by Hp_Lovecraft

Ē Low pressure" is not what people claim it to be.

It does not increase efficiency by itself. In fact, the guns with the WORST efficiency on the market are also the LOWEST pressure guns.

In theory, a paintball gun should get the same number of shots regardless of tank pressure. It tanks the same amount of ENERGY to accelerate a paintball to 300fps.
In reality, it is the shape of the pressure curve, as the valve opens and closes, that dictates how efficiently the energy inside the tank is transferred behind the ball.

As a result, the pressure itself has little to do with efficiency. The goal is creating an efficient pressure curve, by balancing all the factors. For example: hammer weight, spring tension, LPR setting, airflow (upstream/downstream). The ability to manipulate the dwell also creates another variable, etc.
In the end, you might end up with a gun anywhere between 200psi and 1000psi. This number ONLY represents the point of balance within the system.

Anyway, LP WILL NOT make your gun more accurate, or give you more range.
It may make your gun more quiet, but might also LOWER your FPS, and create a starve situation.
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Last edited by lovetocheat69; June 16th, 2005 at 02:23 PM..
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Old June 16th, 2005, 04:56 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
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I ddnt mean that you cluttered my thread. I just wanted helpful info, know what I mean? and someone coming on and just saying, "want my opinion? Don't go low pressure." isn't very helpful.

I have a spring kit and I am going to be messing around with those at the Chrono. I also am not looking for more accuracy or range. hat I am looking for is the best comboination of Springs, valves, and reg settings to get the most out of my tnak, and make the gun quieter, with less blowback (re-done ACS Bolt with new air hole)

Thanks for trying to help me out though. Sorry to come off harsh in those first posts. I guess I was just frustrated I wasn't getting the response I wanted.

Any more comments.

Thanks,
-Junkie
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Old June 16th, 2005, 05:57 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Well I can tell you what I did to make my LP spyder . First off you need AKA internals. its a must, they are the best I have ever worked with. The valve and the bolt NEED to be AKA. Also another thing you cant overlook is to polish the striker so it increases its efficiency and reduces the friction. Once you complete this the regulator is also a important thing not to overlook. For my LP kit I used a System X Vengeance 2.0 Dual Exhaust Regulator which worked wonders for me. It is probably the best regulator I have ever owned. If you want the gun to sound more silent you might want to get a new barrel aswell. Like a whisper barrel or something similar will work wonders. Also donít get to into it, you can end up spending a lot of money like I did. 800$ to be exact on a spyder and other things like hoppers and what not.
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Old June 16th, 2005, 10:52 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
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according to otter, the maddman rocket valve is the highest flowing, i'd definately go with that. the lightening bolt is too, try to get ahold of that. cp regs are good. assault blocks are great flowing otter says.so you've got a good setup there.

Last edited by andisblue; June 23rd, 2005 at 03:31 AM..
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Old June 17th, 2005, 12:28 AM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Okay guys. Here's the setup I have purchased:

- Blue Shorty CP Reg w./ gauge port
- Bob Long 600 psi gauge
- 15* Assault Block
- 32* Spring Kit
- New DeSignZ High Performance valve
- Polished Internals
- Blue Macro Line Kit

I plan on getting a Stainless Steel Freak Kit for my birthday in August, along with a 68/4500 tank. SO the barrel kit will be upgraded form the P.O.S. 3A one that I have now (Back Bore size piece is dented cause it's cheap)

Thanks for all your guys' help.

- Junkie
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Old June 17th, 2005, 12:02 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Take the stock block and completly hollow it out, and poilsh it. It would have a much larger volume that way and probably better flow also. As a downside though you would have to loktite the screw that holds it in to seal it.
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Old June 17th, 2005, 02:43 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I woulda got the Tornado valve, and get a nice bolt, like tigershark or lightening.
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 03:32 AM   #17 (permalink)
 
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too late he already got the ndz one. ah well. it'll still probly run low pressure pretty decent.

just curious as to why you listed 3 valves and then bought the worst one.
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 07:08 AM   #18 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder-Junkie
-_-

Okay. No more comments like that. I have already done hours upon hours of research for going low pressure. I have used about three different sites and put in about 5 hours of studying and therefore, I am still going Low pressure. Don't come on here and tell me not to. I didn't ask peoples opinions of whether or not I should do it. I asked for the best possible spring combinations and parts that will help me achieve maximum performance while using low pressure.

Now, any more input is greatly appreciated.

- Junkie

EXACTLY.....hehe you tell em!

Anyways go with either a madmann valve if you're running CO2 but if you're running HPA you'd be better off with the AKA valve. For your cocking bolt try either a Shocktech Supafly, bandit cocking bolt (nylatron please -it's the best-), or a Lightning bolt. I've had the privilage to try all three of them in the past and all worked significantly well for my Xtra. 32* spring kit is also a good offer. Try either the Dark Horizon Titanium Hammer/Striker or eaglelox's Nightstriker(XL). Again I also had the privilage to test out both striker and both are relatively the same, performance wise, but to be a little bit on the cosmetic side I chose the XL nightstriker because my bolt is also nylatron. If you're really serious than e-mail Ottersc for some questions. He'll definitely help you and he knows a lot about this s**t. Yeah why did you buy that crappy valve for..? Should've gotten a maddmann/aka
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 12:22 PM   #19 (permalink)
 
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what's the differnce between hp and lp, is it a less kick? quieter? that's all I could think of, I don't think I would really want to make the switch.
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 01:12 PM   #20 (permalink)
 
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The difference is the pressure inside your gun. With LP you compensate for having less energy per cubic inch by simply having more cubic inches. Which is why all the holes are bigger, spaces hollowed out. There needs to be more room for the air and it needs to have a better path of flow since it won't escape as well as HP will. Kick is caused by ball being shot(you cant reduce that) and the moving of the internals. You can reduce kick by lightening the internals, but you have to compensate for that by making the valve easier to open. I started to do the LP mod a while back until I realized I was spending too much on a spyder. Thing is, you can buy a zip kit and get to lp instantly, plus you get electropneumatic operation like a bko. All for cheaper. But LP spyders are supposed to be more gentle on paint. I can't see that being an advantage for me when i've machinegunned mine all day at a tourney with no problems. anyway i dont have much to add to the topic except that you'll get the best results with the highest flowing valve, the rocket valve from maddman. tornado valve is a close 2nd(in actually testing) and then you got all those other valves.
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