The ultimate spyder.... - Paintball Forum - Paintball guns and gear forums

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Old June 25th, 2004, 05:19 PM   #1 (permalink)
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The ultimate spyder....

Well this thread is on how to make the ultimate spyder. itís really quite simple. There was a previous thread on this and for some reason I forgot the guy who made it so I give him the credit for the idea and the format.

Now In this thread I will make one thatís a ultimate spyder for 200$ including the gun and one for 300$ and one for 400$. I have done one for each and found some common ground in performance and accuracy but some flaws with the rest. Here are my results.

First off here is a brief description of each item that you will need and what they do.

Barrel- This helps contribute to the accuracy of the gun. You would be surprised to see what happens when you replace a stock spyder barrel with a Progressive or a teardrop. Shocking almost.

Bolt- This basically is how the air is transferred from the lower tube to the top tube and propels the ball. IT is important to have a smooth and clean bolt to prevent scratches and wear and tear of the insides of the marker.

Valve- A high flow valve is important for better efficiency. What it does is simple. When the striker hitís the valve pin the valve pin moves back and air is rushed in the gap that the valve makes. Now what a new valve does is make that gap of air larger and more high flow.

Regulator- Possibly the greatest upgrade God has given to paintballers. What this does is regulate the airflow. Why is this a big deal? SimpleÖ A regulated air flow means a constant one. A constant airflow means better performance in all areas. Itís consistent, smooth and dependable.

Volumizer- Mainly cosmetic but important for low pressure.

Drop Forward- Again mainly cosmetic wont improve performance of the gun at all.

Hopper- It is important to have a fast hopper with a electric gun. It helps prevent ball chopping. It makes sure that when a ball is fired there is another ball loaded in itís stead to be fired immediately.

Ok well thatís it as far as the description goes. Now lets begin with the gun diagnostics.

1.The 200$ gunÖ.
-Spyder TLX 100$
-Pure Energy regulator 30$
-Progressive barrel 35$
-ND HP Valve 25$
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I removed the venturi and polished the internals and drilled the VA before the testing.

Gas used-C02 90z Chrome molly alloy

Review and tests-

Accuracy- Phenomenal is the only word to describe it. I had a perfect paint to barrel match with the progressive and it worked well. The TLX was using a standard hopper so I wasnít shooting fast but still. I was actually grouping my shots! I mean it wasnít a cocker or anything but it was nice for what I spent.

Affordability- I recommend this to anyone on a budget it truly is a ultimate spyder.

Efficiency- The valve delivered what it advertised it basically increased the amount of shots I would get. I did notice a difference from running it stock on one 9 oz to running it with the ups with a 9 oz both filled. Unfortunately I didnít count the shots because I get bored easy (ADD) but it took me longer to crank out the shots with the valve.

Looks- The looks of the gun are ok. Fluorescent blue doesnít contrast well with matte black but O well it is still a awesome performing gun.

Over all- Wow this gun is amazing, although it doesnít have speed it covers all areas of performance quite well. I wouldnít mind taking this gun to the field. It really is nice. The regulator made a difference in noise and although since it didnít have a gauge I didnít know what PSI I was running it had to be around 450 to 500. Not to bad.
Pros-
Cheap
Increased Efficiency
Pretty accurate

Cons-
Looks like ****
Mech = slow
Plastic trigger frame

Would I recommend it? Yes.

If you are on a budget this gun will defiantly support your skill level. It cant keep up with me but that is all it lacks in performanceÖ.Speed

Results in detail-
PSI used- 450-500 PSI (guessing no gauge)
Gas- C02
Regulator- Pure Energy
Gun- TLX
Valve- ND HP
Bolt- Stock (modified)
Striker- Stock (modified)
Barrel- Progressive
Trigger/frame- Stock


FPS- 275-300
Grouping- 30FT 2 inch
40FT 3 inch
50FT 4.5 inch
100FT 18 inch

Diameter of the drill used to drill VA- 13/64 In. Drill bit in existing VA hole.
Sand paper/polish used- Alligator paper 400 800 1000 1500 and Wrights all purpose brass polish
Oil used- PMI
Paint used- PMI Premiums
Ball Breaks- None
Shots cycled- 100

Flaws- The stock bolt needs to be sanded well for low ball breaks. It is hard to be really consistent with the sanding but I believe in you.

If you do go with this gun I recommend you to do- Nothing really a Electronic hopper and a Eframe. But hey the whole point of this is to do it under budget so nothing really.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the gun- Stock-

I also did the tests with nothing on the gun. Here are my results.

Gas used- Co2 90c chrome molly alloy tank
Paint used- PMI premiums (good paint to barrel match)
Oil used- PMI

Everything on the gun was stock and just out of the box.

Accuracy- The guns accuracy was horrible. For a stock spyder it was bad. Thatís saying something. The FPS had to be somewhere around 280 although Iím not sure yet. The grouping was horrible but occasionally the shots hit there mark.

Efficiency- For a stock spyder it was ok. Didnít really notice a difference between this and a stock TL in this area.

Looks- Sexiest stock spyder on the market at a great price to.

Overall- I think stock this gun is ok. For the price you pay it is great. I recommend it to anyone that is new to the sport.


Here are the results-

Gun- All stock

FPS- 275-300FPS Iím assuming not over 300 Iím sure.

Grouping 30FT 4inch spread
40FT 6 inch spread
50FT 9 inch spread
100FT I cant tell it missed the target every time but once with 10 shots

Ball Breaks- None
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The weather conditions were as follows-

Wind- I made sure there was none
Temp- 82 degrees
Humidity- 55%

Now keep in mind those conditions were also for the upgraded version of the TLX.

The target was a wooden board with a red dot in the center the size of a paintball. This was my mark. The size of the board was as follows 4 feet tall 4 feet wide. To ensure consistency I did the test 2 more times. The results were very similar so I wont bore you with them.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

This concludes the first gun. I will include pics a bit later.
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Old June 25th, 2004, 05:20 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Next is the gun for 300$ that is also the ultimate. Here is what I chose.
(Not including the price of a loader)

Also the following mods were done-
50G Switch
Blade trigger
Magnetic trigger
Polished Internals
Removed Venturi
Drilled VA
(NOTE- The mods were done prior to me even coming on the forum {or some of them} so I canít give the results stock) Also GBRUDY owns the trigger frame now. I have some goodies in the mail so donít cry.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gas used- 3000/68 Crossfire air
Hopper- Evolution 2 hopper

Spyder Electra- 150$ or so
AKA Tornado Valve- 50$
32 Degrees Whisper barrel- 50$ (Iím also doing a variation with a teardrop soon)
System X Vengeance 2.0 Regulator (90$)

At first glance- It looks very impressive. I had this setup for a while on my Electra DX except I had a Lightning bolt on it but thatís fine without one. It looks weird only because the barrel and the regulator are blue if they were black it would look freaking awesome.


Accuracy- The accuracy was nothing short of impressive. I think it was better then the previous progressive barrel but only because the whisper had air and better parts. After switching that barrels the progressive was louder and had relatively the same accuracy. Nothing to noticeable.

Affordability- You are getting the bang for your buck on this setup.

Efficiency- This is a machine on efficiency. I tried to run out of air and I couldnít. I wasnít using low pressure. I had it at 430PSI the whole time. The gun was also quite due to the valve and the barrel. The WHISPER barrel doesnít make your gun silenced or anything but it reduces the noise by 10% or so compared to other aftermarket barrels. But it ran smoothly the entire time with little recoil.

Looks- Again if the parts were matching it would look AWSOME! But since they werenít it didnít. However if you did get this setup with matching parts, you wont regret it. It is pure and simple beauty. I recommend getting a new on and off drop. Where the air comes from the side not directly in front like a normal spyderís asa.

Overall- This gun preformed better then the 200$ gun but it wasnít a significant difference that would make you crap yourself. It was noticeable. Accuracy was really the same. Speed obviously better. The pull was O so sweet. Once tuned I got this thing going at 315 PSI. Not to shabby. If you are going Low Pressure this setup would be more ideal then the 200$ gun setup.







Pros-
Nice price
Very accurate
Smooth and shoots like a dream
More efficient then a German in space
Looks sharp

Cons-
Looks funny (color scheme)
Not as cost effective as the 200$ gun but still is very nice

Would I recommend it? Yes.

If you are on a budget and wanted LP this is a good setup I think. The only things that you would need is a new Volumizer and a new drop for cosmetics. Other then that its primo.

Results in detail
Gun-Spyder Electra
Regulator- System X Vengeance 2.0
Valve- AKA Tornado Valve
Barrel- Whisper
Bolt- Stock
Striker- Stock
Hopper- Evolution 2

FPS- 280FPS
PSI - 400PSI

Grouping 30FT- 1.5-2inch
40FT- 2inch
50FT- 4inch mild curving
100FT- 15 inch mild curving yet still accurate

Diameter of the drill used to drill VA- 13/64 In. Drill bit in existing VA hole.
Sand paper/polish used- Alligator paper 400 800 1000 1500 and Wrights all purpose brass polish
Oil used- PMI
Paint used- PMI Premiums
Ball Breaks- None
Shots cycled- 100

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The weather conditions were as follows-

Wind- I made sure there was none
Temp- 79 degrees
Humidity- 58%

Now keep in mind those conditions were also for the upgraded version of the TLX. and stock same dayÖ

The target was a wooden board with a red dot in the center the size of a paintball. This was my mark. The size of the board was as follows 4 feet tall 4 feet wide. To ensure consistency I did the test 2 more times. The results were very similar so I wont bore you with them.
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Old July 20th, 2004, 11:24 AM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Barrel- This helps contribute to the accuracy of the gun. You would be surprised to see what happens when you replace a stock spyder barrel with a Progressive or a teardrop. Shocking almost

are u serious? a teardrop or progressive??? please these barrels arent really then the stock barrel. i recommend a ceramic instead of those. the ceramic is so much better then either or those barrels and much more affordable.
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Old July 20th, 2004, 11:25 AM   #4 (permalink)
 
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actually, it all depends on the bore size of the paint your using, no 1 peice barrel is better then another, its just what you prefer, and teh paint to barrel match
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Old July 20th, 2004, 11:40 AM   #5 (permalink)
 
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the ceramic is typlhon coated (i think i spelled that right). that means ya dont gotta pull out the squeegie every time u chop a ball. also the new breed of ceramics have more prting holes meaning a quieter shot. if ya really concerned about bore size then your gunna have to pay more! i agree with u a 100% that its the paint to barrel match. but finding that match takes a long time!
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Old July 20th, 2004, 11:54 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Here is my the one-

Hacked up (cut off part of upper tube, filed down lower part of front top tube to fit vertical adapter) spyder xtra body, modern ball bearing detents, spudnukl xtra bolt, 30 gram custom switch, 16 inch All American barrel (just won it for $27, ebay), custom rubberized grips, stock regulator and dropforward, modified low pressure regulator, 68/3000 psi tank.

Its fast. Decent set up. I think it cost me $350 total?
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Old July 20th, 2004, 12:00 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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nicce! i think a new trigger would be perfect for that thing. then that thing would be ready to rock! only gunna run u 25 bux max!
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Old July 20th, 2004, 04:49 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Yes, Ill probably post pics middle of august when I get back from college for my brief, 2 week vacation.
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Old July 20th, 2004, 09:31 PM   #9 (permalink)
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My experiances with J and J barrels haven't been consistent. When I owned one with my tippmann it worked wonders. My freinds autococker's worked well to but then the next day we got so many barrel breaks. Same brand of paint to. So I decided to get a J and J with my spyder thinking that it would be just the same as my tippmann. And acctually the barrel works marvelously when the conditions are right but if something is off a bit the barrel can turn into a "death tube" it's bad.
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Old July 21st, 2004, 01:12 PM   #10 (permalink)
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that death tube thing never happened to me yet so i'll have to watch out for that. do u have one of the new ones? hold old is your ceramic KingFikiElectra?

O the barrel was new when I got it 2 years ago LoL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobide
Hey fiki can u elaborate on the "right" conditions. B/c i'm kinda looking to buy one.....
Paint to barrel match needs to be perfect. Paint itself needs to be decent paint. Also the velocity cant be to high or to low. And of course the other obious variables such as cleaning the barrel and the gun and making sure the paint is clean. However I did these things with my spyder but the results were inconsistent so I had to have been screwing up somewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheConMan41
great post fiki... keep up the good work man... this is a great thread for anyone who is looking to up their spyder, and you even give the review on how it performs and looks... thats incredible in my opinion...
Hey thanks .
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Old October 8th, 2004, 05:53 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
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It seems KingFikiElectra isn't gonna update "the parts" part of this sticky so here goes

Spyder markers
If you're wonder what spyder is better over another. Stop now and get any one of them since they're all basically work the same (except the AMG and the EM1). EM1 was the first attempt by kingman to come out with high end marker and it failed pretty badly. Well basically all the rest work the same. All the mechs and E-frame spyders are the same. Only thing you're looking for is the accessories that comes with the marker and the milling. You're actually playing extra for the mill if you really comes down to it.

Paint and Barrel Match
This is the most part of shooting your marker straight, accurately, and how far the ball will travel. If your ball is too small in the barrel. The ball will mostly likely not travel as far and swerve off to one side. And of course if the ball is too big it'll loose velocity or not fit your barrel at all and break in your barrel. So before buying your paintballs check if your barrel and the paints fit well. Here's a simple test if it's the right size for your barrel. Take one ball and put into your barrel. If it's snug in the barrel and able to blow it out (put it to your mouth) and comes out. It's a good match.

Paint
This is one of your most expensive purchases when you play. Since you can't play without balls you're going to keep spending and spending through all your paintballing life. Trying buying some of the major brands. You can't go wrong with them. They also sell 2nd's. They're pretty much the rejects of manufacturing paintballs so they're like lop sided and so forth. Use 2nd's as your last resort IMO


Aftermarket Bodies
There's few out there that make your markers eye candy to everybody all around you. But there's not much of a selection compared to other markers. Let's go through the ones that are easy to access.

Bob Long Millenium = This body is most common body out there. It's pretty basic but it has nice options that people are looking for. It has Angel thread feed. It comes with side, top and back cocking ability. It takes fatty strikers. It comes with nothing other than the feed.

Fireball Mountain = This is a nice body. It's fairly cheap I guess if you're looking for an aftermarket body. It has 3 different body types you could choose from. I've been told there's not much quality control.

SBM = This is a body by suprbugman. He made one batch for $275 for each body. This body was immulating the all time great VLM bodies by AKA. There's only couple out there. This was in my opinion nicest aftermarket bodies out there but it was too expensive. He might go through another run if he could get enough people and he have more free time in the futre.

VLM = This body is discontinued. This was introduced by AKA. This was to make spyders high flowing marker. This is all time the best and expensive body you could get. If you could find one or have one you're one of the lucky ones. This body had enough meat so you could mill and have nice interior that made your marker like one of the high end markers out there.

*Note* Kingman doesn't sell just bodies

Barrels
If you not already know the stock barrels pretty much SUCK. That is why if you check out your local stores and online there's tons of companies that make barrels for all types of markers and angels are no exception. Let me go through few barrels that's on the market now.

Oh yeah. This is one of your most important upgrades so I would suggest you have "what barrel to get" on top of your what to get list.

reasons for kits is that not all balls come out all the same in the batches when they produce them. That is why barrel kits are important.

Barrel Kits
Freak kit = they're made by SP(smart parts). They make two different versions. 1. Full Set - that comes with 8 different bore adapters. 2. Economic set - that comes with 4 different bore adapter. If you decide to get this Kit try getting the stainless steel inserts. The aluminum inserts has some wear issues.

Ti kit = they're made of titanium. It's not cheap mainly cause of the material they used to make this barrel kit. Unlike the freak kit these comes with barrels itself with different bores. They claim it's has the smoothest inner surface. I have never used this barrel so check it out at your local stores.

CP kit = they're made by Custom Products. They're very good company for producing cheap barrels that work very well. If you're on a budget and want a kit this is the road to take. Like the Ti barrel kit. They come with different bored barrels. It's cheaper than the Ti barrel kit and they work well.

Single Barrels
AA = All American barrels are good barrels. It's not cheap just let you know. It's efficent barrels. I've used it couple of time and I was satisfied with it. Only problem I had was the price.

DYE = This is one of the most popular barrels out there. They make barrels such as the UltraLite and the Boom Stick barrels which is there most popular sellers. I have to say I love both the UltraLite and the Boom Stick but they're too much which i'm not willing to spend. If you have the money go for it. You won't regret it.

J&J ceramic = they're made by J&J percision. These are good barrels. These are made of ceramic if you haven't already noticed by there name. This is also one of the popular barrels out there. Only issue with this barrel is they have bore issue. Not all the batches that they make comes out exactly what the bores size it printed on it. So I would suggest checking the bore itself before buying. It will make a difference if you use your favorite paint and don't fit right.

There's too many barrel companies out there to talk about so I'll just list a few others out there and you can check them out yourself. There are companies that produce barrels like... LAPCO, Empire, PMI, TASO, Armson, etc.

Hoppers/Loaders
Now a days. There's more different hopper manufactures than when I started playing this sport. Hoppers helps not break your balls while those games that mean the most. You know what I'm talking about. Hoppers pretty much aggitates the balls so it'll go into your marker faster so in lameness term "it feeds balls faster" So let me tell you some of the Hoppers out there.

This too is one of the first upgrades you will need to keep playing without having those bad days on the field.

If you want to see reviews on these hoppers go to www.warpig.com

Regular Hoppers = They're gravity fed hoppers. They're nothing but a big container where they hold your balls with no electronics inside to help feed the balls to your marker.
6bps

Revolution = They're also called Revi's. These are pretty decent hoppers. They come in 2 versions. 9 volt and 12 volt. If you already haven't guessed the more power you have the faster the ball is aggitated. I would suggest getting the 12 volt version. They also have a upgrade of the electronics. It's called the X-Board. It pretty much makes the agitator spin faster so it feeds the balls faster.
9volt=8pbs 12volt=11bps

Empire = This hopper is very similar to the Revi. They have a better construction and feed bit faster than the Revi even with the X-Board. I would choose to get this one if you're on a budget over the Revi.
13bps

Empire b = empire has this version which is bit more expensive and of couse better performace. This is hopper is considered to be in the top end of the hoppers out there. It has high rate agitator to feed the balls faster
16bps

Evlution 2 = These are one of the top hoppers out there. These are shaped like an egg. So people usually call them Eggies. They feed pretty fast that it'll keep up with your pace but not always if you could out shoot the speed of the hopper. This hopper also have upgrade board. It's called the Y-Board and the Z-Board.
14bps+

Ricochet = This is one of the very high rated hoppers out there. It'll be able to keep up with pretty much any fast fingers out there. Consider this hopper as one of your choices when you want to get a hopper. They have few different versions of this. The one with the LCD has a counter, timer and ball counter. I think this version is a waste so I would say keep with away from gagets and keep it simple.
14bps

Halo = Halos are far best ones out there. They have 2 versions Halo A and the Halo B. The second version pretty much blows the previous version out of the water. If you have the money this is it. The top of the line hopper around. It'll be able to keep up with pretty much anybody out there that could walk a trigger like a madman.
HaloA=18+bps HaloB=22+bps

Q-Loader = This is an interesting hopper. Unlike other hoppers on the market, this holds balls in a big Pod shape container. This hopper is like a tube like the ones you carry in your pod holder around your waist. It can be mounted pretty much anywhere like side, under the barrel and where ever else you feel comfortable. It doesn't feed the balls by electronics but springs. If you ever played around with a wind up toys, pretty much that's how it works. You wind up the spring inside the pod and it's self powered after that.
24+bps

Warp Feed = this isn't a hopper. This is an addition to your hopper that you already have. This is connected between your hopper and the feed where the balls goes into by a tube. It basically "force" feeds your marker. This is the fastest feeder on the market but since it's the best it's not cheap. This is also to keep your marker low profile. You mount this on the side of your marker. Lot of people have issue this since it makes your marker more bulky looking. It's all about comfort.
24+bps

Last edited by Spec74; November 4th, 2004 at 01:37 PM.. Reason: updating
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Old October 9th, 2004, 01:36 AM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Valves
This part helps give higher flow to your marker. Since higher the flow of air, smoother operation of your marker. There's quite a few out there. Let's go throught few of them for you.

AKA tornado valve = They're made by AKA. This is the best and highest flow valve on the market. And it's the most expensive valve. I would suggest this if you have money to splurge. AKA stands for quality.

Maddman Rocket Valves = This is by far one of the best for the value and performance. This is valve is made to work on "low pressure" operation. So I suggest getting a regulator before you buy this valve since it requires the marker at 600 psi or lower. If you don't you could damage the valve.

*Note*There is a repair kit that you could buy for rocket valve

NDZ = This is a good company that comes out with quality products. They have a high flowing valve with nice pin to boot. This is little bit cheaper than the maddman Rocket Valve and I believe it does the same job.

There's also other valves out there but they don't perform any close to these 3 at the top. I will just list the ones out there if you're on a budget and need a high flow valve. There are made by 32*, TASO, and Omega valve (Omega valve is sorta interesting valve cause it's made of Ti and has an oring on the valve screw). These three are made in same design so get anyone of them if you like.

*Note*Lot of people seem to have leak problem with there valves. So try using the lapco cup seal. it's a cheap upgrade but it usually solves leak problems. Stock cup seals seem to get damaged if you tamper around with it. You can't see the damage until you really inspect it really really close.


Striker/Hammer
There's just few out there. This part is basically just to hit the pin with less mass. In doing so less kick everytime you pull and you get better accuracy.

DHC = This striker is made of Titanium. This is 1/3 less than your stock striker. There is a new version to improve on the wear issue.

Night Stalker = This is a new striker introduced by Insane Pain sports. There are 2 versions regular and XL version. XL is 11 grams lighter than the regular. This his made out of titanium at all metel to metal contacts and the rest is made of Nylatron. Then coated in brine for wear issue.(I would recommend this over the DHC)

Check it Products = They announced that they're coming out with it a year or so ago but still haven't released it. So keep an eyes out for this.

ACP = They're made of aluminum/zinc composite where the striker hits the pin and the rest is made of nylon. This came out while ago but had some wear issue. They're at retesting mode. This would be the best striker out there since it's 2/3 less than your stock strikers. But who knows when this will be re-released.

Mod Striker = This mod is tricky since you need you're trying to grind away tempered steel. You're going to need a diamond wheel cutter if you're using hand tool or a table gringer. If you don't have a steady hands you're pretty much asking for a trip to the emergency room... So think before you really want to try this mod. here's a link how it should look like. Scroll down http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...hreadid=608457

There's few people that's thinking of coming out with delrin and other composite strikers but no news yet when they will be coming out so we'll see what kind of different strikers will be in the future.


Regulator

This part is sorta like the heart of your marker. Many people has asked me what is a regulator. No joke. Well a regulator is.... well it regulates the air in your marker. I would say this is the most important part of your whole marker so don't go too cheap on it. There's many regulators out there that work great with CO2 or N2/CA. Let's see what kinds of regulators are out there.

Palmer Stabilizer = This is made by palmer pursuit. This is the all time great regulator. Works like a tank and regulates both CO2's and N2's. This isn't cheap regulator so think about it before buying. If you do get this one... you won't regret it.

ANS = ANS works decent with N2's but lousy with CO2's. I've heard people having some functions problems with this reg. I've used this and worked fine.

Air America = AA makes 2 versions. The Viligante and the Messiah. Both are pretty well built regulators. I've used the Viligante and worked great but like the most of the regulators out there it doesn't work with CO2's well.

WGP = They have well built regs that works with CO2's and N2's like the palmer's but the ERGO the cheaper version is capped at 600psi. so if you don't already have a turbo valve in your marker. Your marker will starve for air and not function.

*NOTE* The ones I've listed above is the popular ones. There's lot more regulators out there. Go check with your local pb stores and check them out. Also above are the ones I recommend over others that are out there.


Expansion Chamber
Lots of people will tell you to not to get a X-chamber. It's not useless as people say as it is. The function of an expansion chamber is to allow the CO2 gas to expand from liquid to gas before being discharged out of the marker. Well because an expansion chamber is nothing but a tube with multi-chambers it won't keep the air consistant when air is discharged out. That's the difference between a regulator and a X-chamber. There's many staged X-chambers out there. Stages basically means how many chambers there are for the gas to expand. Since all expansion chambers work pretty much the same I'll just list the name of the companies out there.

ACI, Lapco, System-X, PMI, AVI, JAVA,


Vertical Adapter

This upgrade is mainly for compact bodies. This upgrade just allows more air flow into the LPC then into the valve. There are very few companies that make this piece. So let's see what's out there.

CIP Assult block = This is currently top seller for this upgrade. This has 15* angled for comfort and looks. It's all about comfort so if you don't like your gas thru or reg being in a 15* angle don't get it.

Mod Stock VA = You could also mod your stock valve for better air flow. If you don't know what you're doing DON'T DO IT!!! this mod is bit harder then other mods. Since your have to drill a bigger hole close to the threads inside you could screw it up easily. So if you want to know how to do it go this this link. www.ottersccustoms.com

Well I guess that's it. I did a search for other aftermarket VA's for compact that I remember but not anymore. It seems like CIP is the only surviving aftermarket VA out there. If you don't to go the poor man way just mod your own stock VA.


Bolt

Okay, this is IMO the last upgrade you should get. Your stock without the venturi (star looking thing inside) taken out. It'll work pretty well. There's so many different bolts out there. I'm having hard time keeping up. It was so simple just 3 years ago... Where as the time gone Well, let's check out some of the popular ones out there.

AKA Lightning Bolt = This is made by AKA famous for there valve and VLM bodies. These are the highest flowing bolts you could get. It's not cheap either. I would recommend this bolt over others even the delrin bolts out there. Get this if you have the money

ACP Blue bolt = This is a new product that ACP just came out with. It's made of nylatron. It has been through some test and it doesn't swell even when the bolt is submerged in water for 2 days. (that's a good thing).

Bandit Bolt = These bolts are made by Bandit. These bolts are made of nylon compound. So you don't need to oil these since it's self lubricating. It's farely cheap and no more O-ring issue

Kingman ACS = this is new bolt by Kingman product. The just introduced it with there new product line just recently. This bolt is to stop balls from chopping when the balls don't go all the way down into the chamber. If you want a system to stop chops this is one path to go.

Jam Bolt = This bolt is a Anti-chop system bolt. it works fairly well. It works pretty much like the Kingman ACS but Jam bolt came out with there bolt first. Let them settle it in court or whatever. But anyways, This is a nice bolt to get if you don't want to spend for Eframe with ACE system.

Shocktech Super Fly = This is produced by shocktech. More and more people seems to be getting this bolt. I've used this bolt and it blows IMO. I had some wear issue with the metal parts of the bolt. It's just one opinion so you should try it yourself and come to your own conclusion.

Spudnuk'l Bolt = This is Spudnuk'l Paintball Products. This is one of the top sellers in the bolt upgrade. This bolt is great for high flowing markers. it also have O-ring slits even though it's made of delrin/nylon composite. the design makes it for great upgrade if you're going for Low pressure markers. I would recommend this if you're going for nylon/delrin bolts

Home MOD bolt = This is the cheapest way to get a high flow bolt. You'll have to take out the venturi out ( the star looking thing inside the bolt) then polish it. If you want to see the steps "how to" go to this link www.ottersccustoms.com

There's more and more different bolts coming out every so often so keep your eyes out. Even ACP is middle of designing there own bolt also. Suppose to be compareable to the AKA lightning bolt from what they told me. So let's see what we get in the future.

Last edited by Spec74; March 2nd, 2005 at 08:36 PM..
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Old October 14th, 2004, 02:19 AM   #13 (permalink)
 
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Feed Neck

This is a piece to replace the feed neck of your marker. Some slips onto the stock or completely replace by taking the neck out and put the new one in. It's all about preferance. There's Hi-rise to Low-rise feed neck. It's preferance once again. Also there's feed necks that has clamps or just slip on with o-rings. I would suggest getting the clamp ones. It'll save you the trouble of your hopper doing the helicopter on the slip on's with o-rings. Since more clamp feed necks are coming out compared to the slip on's. You'll have no problem finding one.

Not all ftermarket feed will fit on any spyders. So check with the place if it'll fit your spyder before buying

Vaporworks = this is a feed that replaces your current feed. This is one of the popular ones and the one I have. It has 2 vent holes on the sides. It has 2 o-rings to keep your hopper firm in place

Check-it Products = They're the first ones that came out with the clamp feeds.

Lapco = they make 2 versions that slips on and that you replace. choose the one you like

NDZ = they ave a intimidator thread feeds. So you could use feed necks for the intimidator's. People like this one cuz you get really no-rise. Meaning you have your hopper sitting top of your marker. hence lower profile.

there's more out there so choose the ones you like. they basically good enough. Like I said before when you get a feed look for a clamp feeds over slide on's.


Trigger Frame

They're not much of a selection out there anymore. There's frames for mech frames and electronic frames. It's all about preferance. I know lot of people like the feel of a mech and others of an electro. The only E-frame out there for the spyders is well by "Kingman". All the other E-frame manufactures when bankrupt or something. So on with the list. If you could call it that.

Mechanical Frame
There isn't much selection to mech frames anymore. There's still couple of them out there but since almost everybody is going toward E-Frames, it's starting to die out.

Dye = Dye makes 2 versions. Single trigger and double trigger. This is frame is one of top trigger sold for mechs. this frame comes with no internals. You will have to swap the internals from your original frame from kingman and put it inside the Dye frame. I have used this frame before. It has a nice feel to the hands and sturdy. you could adjust the pull up to 2mm from I'm told.

Mod Frame = You could mod your frame for light and short pull. there is a "How to" at this site http://www.ottersccustoms.com/ to mod your frame. IF YOU DONT KNOW HOW TO USE TOOLS DON'T DO IT

Also if you don't want to mod your own frame and send it out send it to this place. www.polecatpaintball.com They do an excellent jobs on trigger mods

Electronic Frames

Kingman = They make 2 versions, the ESP and the Sprint. These E-Frames are capped at 13 BPS. That means how fast you could pull your trigger it won't shoot no more than 13 balls per second. If you have a problem with that then just think you're saving paintballs.

"Sprint" is made of plastic composite. It's fairly cheap compared to the ESP but lot of people have complains that it broke, cracked and other dissatisfaction with this model. What do you expect from a plastic frame.

"ESP" is of metal. Currently the best model is the IPI 3.0. This is a nice E-Frame and heck you could pull faster compared to the mechanical frames.

MAKO = This E-Frame is discontinued. This was pretty popular when it was still in the market. It had a LCD display with nice feel. You could still find some on eBay or B/S/T forums.

Boo-Yah = This frame again not in the market anymore. This was a decent E-frame. This frame is capped at 16bps. There is a company out there somewhere in the midwest that still service this frame but forgot what the company was called so do a search if you decide to get this frame.

There are upgrades to E-Frames but only for the Kingman E-Frames since they're the only surviving company still make E-Frames.

E-Frame upgrades

T-Board = This is made by Scenerio Dreams. This is a nice board and great customer service. This board is capped at 36bps. I don't know anybody that could reach that rate of fire so 36 bps is good enough. You could set pretty much everything to make your E-Frame sweet. This also comes with break beam anti chop eyes. This is to stop the solenoid from being activated if the ball is not in the chamber. This I would suggest this over others now in the market til a better one comes out.
T-board also has upgrade. Upgrades having upgrades... Well this T-chip gives you extra functions that doesn't come with the one that comes with the T-Board. You get semi, 3 burst and full auto settings and other extra functions. It's like 15 bucks just for the chip so if you still like to fool around with these settings then get it. But IMO it's a waste of money.

*NOTE*Before buying this board make sure it fits in your E-Frame. Kingman has changed a bit of it's latest E-Frames. Check with Damonwill or The Trooper on Pbnation if it fits your Spyder.

IS Board = This was produced by Nerobro and terminalerr from PBnation. It's currently out of production but might come out with it again in the future. This board was uncapped. So you could pull to your hearts content. This was better than the T-Board when it first came out but right now they're pretty much neck and neck cuz of of the T-Boards newer version. This also came with A.C.E system.

XSF = This Board is made by Xtreme Sports Fulfillment. This is the most expensive board out there. This board is the most unpopular board in the market cause of the price tag when you could get other boards cheaper with better options. This comes with less settings compared to other 2 boards above. This comes with 3 settings which other 2 boards don't have such as semi, 3 ball burst and full auto. This too comes with A.C.E. system. But unlike other board, this comes with Eye covers. You don't even have to drill extra holes to mount this eye covers.

Triggers

Check-it Sweet spot = This is a nice trigger by Check-it Products. They come out some innovations once in awhile. This trigger sorta solves the side to side slack problem that lot of people have with there stock E-Frames.

Zenitram = This was one of the first aftermarket triggers. this is a nice trigger and feels very comfortable to the fingers. It's very easy to walk with this trigger.

ACP Slasher = This is currently a favorite with the people on the forums. It's not on the main stream but still sells well. It's 3 point adjustable for your perfect feel to your fingers. It eliminates the side to side slack. I would recommend this over other aftermarket triggers out there.

ACP Thrasher = They just came out with this trigger. It's similar as the 3 point adjust and side to side elimination. Only difference is the looks. it's bit narrower than the Slasher. This is also nice to have.

Shocktech = Shocktech also makes aftermarket triggers for the spyder. I haven't heard anybody really use this trigger since much better triggers are out there. If you want to try them out by all means go for it.


Low Pressure Chambers

This is an unnecessary upgrade. The stock will pretty much do the job as the aftermarket ones. It's all about cosmetics. Only one IMO that actually has some effect on the efficiency of your marker is the one by shocktech. it's like 9-10 inches long with high volume where you could store air in. If you still want to get one, check out the list.

Bob Long, Shocktech, Benchmark, ACI, NDZ, AKA Maxflow, etc.


Tanks

Well type of gas you use does matter. For instance, Co2's are sensitive to the temperature outside of the tank. This is the reason why most of the paid fields you go have checks for FPS of you marker throughout the day. As for N2/CA are used by pros and more vetern ballers out there. Since N2/CA aren't effected by the weather or time of day. Because of these reasons, Co2's are more unstable compared to N2/CA. If you have the money go get a Nitro tank but if you are on a budget get a Co2 tank but get a "anti-siphon tube" so no liquid gets into your marker. Liquid is the enemy.
There's too name companies so I'll just name them since most of the work pretty much all the same IMO.

Crossfire, PMI, ACI, Center Flag, System X, Air America, etc.

*Note* if you want more opinions which tanks is better over the other. Go to your local store and ask them.

Last edited by Spec74; November 4th, 2004 at 01:26 PM..
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Old October 14th, 2004, 02:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
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may also want to add the t-chip to the list of board upgrades maybe. also the is board was manly made by nerobro. terminalerr was part of the software process i believe so just may wanna put down nerbro's name in there
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Old October 14th, 2004, 04:28 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
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Kits

There's kits out there to change the operation of your spyder. There's kits that change your marker to closed bolt system to pnuematic operated. If you have the money and time or bored go for it. Let's check out what kind of kits are there on the market.

R.A.I.L kit = This kit is out of production at the moment. This kit was introduced couple of years ago to make your open bolt spyders to closed bolt system. It never went past the beta stage of the production. Couple people paid to test this baby and some were satisfied and some weren't. The company that sold this kit sold it to another company so they're not making it anymore. This kit was sold for $150. If you were thinking of buying a spyder than this kit... it was a waste of money. For this price you could just think of getting a WGP autococker and save the trouble.

The One Kit = This is now stopped in production. this was produced by TES Dragun. This was to replace your E-Frame and use pnuematic to cock your marker. Even though it was for the Dragun you could install it on a spyder. This was a nice kit to have. It was popular so I don't know why they stop making it. maybe they'll come out with an improved version or something in the future.

Spyder/Timmy Converstion = This isn't a Kit per say. you'll have to get all the parts yourself. this makes your spyder into a timmy. You'll have to get pretty much all the parts of the timmy and put it together. It's not cheap so if you have the money go for it. And you could try to piss off those timmy owners by saying that you have a spyder timmy hehehe
Here's the link how to do it http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...hreadid=454186



BEST OF THE BEST

If you want to have the best of the best parts and make your marker pimped out to all you can I would suggest these.

Body = AKA VLM body
Barrel = Freak Kit w/ SS inserts
Tank = Nitro 68/4500 tank
hopper = Halo B
reg = Palmer Stab
Valve = AKA Lightning valve or Maddman Rocket valve
Bolt = AKA Lightning bolt or the new ACP blue bolt
Striker = DHC Ti striker or ACP striker (if they ever come out)
VA = CIP assult block
LPC = Shocktech
Feedneck = NDZ adapter with timmy no-rise neck
Trigger = Eframe with T-board w/ eyes and 50g switch
Detent = dual timmy detent with timmy covers
trigger = ACP slasher/ thrasher
DF = unimount w/ on/off
Line = Macro kit or SS line
cosmetics = Milling and anno

*** I don't know how much this will cost but well these are the best of the best parts I could think of so it's gonna cost you. Good luck making your spyders/clones best as they can work.

Last edited by Spec74; November 25th, 2004 at 01:35 AM..
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Old November 4th, 2004, 01:27 PM   #16 (permalink)
 
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Well I think i'm done.... FINALLY SHEESH................................

Well if anybody see any revisions I should make please tell me so so I could change it accordingly.
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Old November 12th, 2004, 06:09 PM   #17 (permalink)
 
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um doesnt the new fenix have a CAMD trigger frame that shoots 20 bps, i didnt see that in the trigger frame section

or is that just a modded ESP frame?
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Old November 12th, 2004, 06:10 PM   #18 (permalink)
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20bps? I doubt that, Ur thinking of the new karny that kingman is makin.
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Old November 12th, 2004, 06:31 PM   #19 (permalink)
 
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yea i know it doesnt actually reach 20 bps but it claims the board is capped at 20, like a TES it wont reach 20
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Old November 15th, 2004, 10:43 PM   #20 (permalink)
 
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no not the new fenix but the new Pilot suppose to from what i'm told. only in semi action tho. I didn't think it was really worth it mentioning it since nobody really knows it can or not reach 20 bps.
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Old November 25th, 2004, 01:31 AM   #21 (permalink)
 
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Bolt section updated with the new ACP blue bolt
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Old November 26th, 2004, 12:23 AM   #22 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spec74
no not the new fenix but the new Pilot suppose to from what i'm told. only in semi action tho. I didn't think it was really worth it mentioning it since nobody really knows it can or not reach 20 bps.

On the kingman website, it states that the Fenix is capable of 14 bps while the Fenix ACS is capable of 20 bps.

I'm kinda interested in the fenix ACS because of this. Do you know if the Fenix would be exactly the same as the Fenix ACS if i only upgraded the Bolt to an ACS bolt? Would it then make the upgraded fenix exactly the same as the Fenix ACS ? Would it also make the upgraded fenix 20 bps? thanks...sorry if its a dumb question..still a newb thanks agin
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Old November 26th, 2004, 12:52 PM   #23 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VoTran24
On the kingman website, it states that the Fenix is capable of 14 bps while the Fenix ACS is capable of 20 bps.

I'm kinda interested in the fenix ACS because of this. Do you know if the Fenix would be exactly the same as the Fenix ACS if i only upgraded the Bolt to an ACS bolt? Would it then make the upgraded fenix exactly the same as the Fenix ACS ? Would it also make the upgraded fenix 20 bps? thanks...sorry if its a dumb question..still a newb thanks agin
Well the new ACS fenix has a new board that is why it's able to reach 20 bps. You could call kingman if you could order the new board but why spend on a kingman board when you could get a T-board for little bit more with eyes. I see only difference between the old and the new fenix is the ACS bolt system. so... no it's not work upgrading to the fenix 20bps board if that's what you were asking.
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Old February 12th, 2005, 09:17 PM   #24 (permalink)
 
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Can you guys tell me a few much needed upgrades for my 2002 Spyder Imagine? I only have an eletric trigger and a 16 inch Nightstik barrel on it now.. Im looking for performance upgrades that will either make the gun just flat out perform better, or shoot harder...Im not a real pro at this stuff, so i was hopin u guys could help... Thanx
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Old February 12th, 2005, 09:40 PM   #25 (permalink)
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get HPA and a revvy
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