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Old May 24th, 2005, 10:05 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Exclamation Some food for thought (Slightly political)

John Glenn has a good answer to his fellow Senator; read his comment at the end.


Things that make you think a little........
1. There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January.. In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January.
That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq.

2. When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, think about the following.

-FDR...led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.

-Truman...finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year.

-John F. Kennedy. .started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.

-Johnson...turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.

-Clinton...went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

3. In the two years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.
The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation. We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.
It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick killing a woman.


Wait, there's more....................... Some people still don't understand why military personnel do what they do for a living. This exchange between Senators John Glenn and Senator Howard Metzenbaum is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty impressive impromptu speech, but it's also a good example of one man's explanation of why men and women in the armed services do what they do for a living. This is a typical, though sad, example of what some who
have never served think of our military.

JOHN GLENN ON THE SENATE FLOOR
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:13

Senator Howard Metzenbaum to Senator Glenn: "How can you run for Senate when you've never held a real job?"

Senator Glenn: "I served 23 years in the United States Marine Corps. I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions. My plane was hit by anti-aircraft fire on 12 different occasions. I was in the space program. It wasn't my checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It was not a nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take the daily cash receipts to the bank. I ask you to go with me ... as I went the other day... to a veteran's hospital and look those men - with their mangled bodies - in the eye, and tell THEM they didn't hold a job!
You go with me to the Space Program at NASA and go, as I have gone, to the widows and orphans of Ed White, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee... and you look those kids in the eye and tell them that their Dads didn't hold a job.
You go with me on Memorial Day and you stand in Arlington National Cemetery, where I have more friends buried than I'd like to remember, and you watch those waving flags.
You stand there, and you think about this nation, and you tell ME that those people didn't have a job? I'll tell you, Howard Metzenbaum; you should be on your knees every day of your life thanking God that there were some men - SOME MEN - who held REAL jobs. And they
required a dedication to a purpose - and a love of country and a dedication to duty - that was more important than life itself. And their self-sacrifice is what made this country possible.
I HAVE held a job, Howard! What about you?"

For those who don't remember - During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was an attorney representing the Communist Party in the USA
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Old May 24th, 2005, 10:23 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I like it. After Bush there will be more presidents, that do stuff worse than he did(didnt really do anything wrong IMO) but he will be forgotten like the other names you mentioned. People dont care about the past just the present. So they will always have probs with the current president.
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Old May 24th, 2005, 11:39 AM   #3 (permalink)
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i like it...it's exactly what i've been thinking for the last year or so...but this may be against the rules...

did glenn really say that or was that a bit exaggurated.
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Old May 24th, 2005, 01:25 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
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-FDR
-Truman
-John F. Kennedy.

also didnt put the U.S. into almost 8 trillion in debt....

(source http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/)
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Old May 24th, 2005, 01:41 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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thank god clinton was around to mend the first bush's F up's.

and atleast in most wars (with the exception of vietnam) we were atleast fighting for a cause. we went into iraq looking for nukes in order to defend our freedom. no nukes found.

but we sure kicked their ass......
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Old May 24th, 2005, 01:46 PM   #6 (permalink)
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yes...that was the only reason we went into iraq...

(wait a minute, weren't all the dems saying it was about oil and greed before??? hmm...i guess stories change)

im not saying that bush's reasons for the war are EXACTLY what he tells the american public, but come on, this is ignorance.
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Old May 24th, 2005, 02:09 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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thats several months old, but still good info
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Old May 24th, 2005, 02:12 PM   #8 (permalink)
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For everyone here who likes to blame bush for us being in Iraq, and in war with them, i would like to politely tell you to, STFU.

The reason being, it isnt his fault we are at war. He does not control when we go to war(OMG AM I SERIOUS?!?!). In fact its the CONGRESS that decides. Dont believe me? didnt thikn you did. So here you go, heres a link to the US constitution.

http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Constitution.html
Check out Section 8 Clause 11. If your to lazy to look at it, here you go anyway, "Clause 11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;" it does not address congress directly in that clause, but sec8 is all about congress.
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Old May 24th, 2005, 02:16 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toXic
For everyone here who likes to blame bush for us being in Iraq, and in war with them, i would like to politely tell you to, STFU.
yea man

+1
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Old May 24th, 2005, 02:17 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinnerman
John Glenn has a good answer to his fellow Senator; read his comment at the end.


Things that make you think a little........
1. There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January.. In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January.
That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq.

2. When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, think about the following.

-FDR...led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.

-Truman...finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year.

-John F. Kennedy. .started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.

-Johnson...turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.

-Clinton...went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

3. In the two years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.
The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation. We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.
It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick killing a woman.


Wait, there's more....................... Some people still don't understand why military personnel do what they do for a living. This exchange between Senators John Glenn and Senator Howard Metzenbaum is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty impressive impromptu speech, but it's also a good example of one man's explanation of why men and women in the armed services do what they do for a living. This is a typical, though sad, example of what some who
have never served think of our military.

JOHN GLENN ON THE SENATE FLOOR
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:13

Senator Howard Metzenbaum to Senator Glenn: "How can you run for Senate when you've never held a real job?"

Senator Glenn: "I served 23 years in the United States Marine Corps. I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions. My plane was hit by anti-aircraft fire on 12 different occasions. I was in the space program. It wasn't my checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It was not a nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take the daily cash receipts to the bank. I ask you to go with me ... as I went the other day... to a veteran's hospital and look those men - with their mangled bodies - in the eye, and tell THEM they didn't hold a job!
You go with me to the Space Program at NASA and go, as I have gone, to the widows and orphans of Ed White, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee... and you look those kids in the eye and tell them that their Dads didn't hold a job.
You go with me on Memorial Day and you stand in Arlington National Cemetery, where I have more friends buried than I'd like to remember, and you watch those waving flags.
You stand there, and you think about this nation, and you tell ME that those people didn't have a job? I'll tell you, Howard Metzenbaum; you should be on your knees every day of your life thanking God that there were some men - SOME MEN - who held REAL jobs. And they
required a dedication to a purpose - and a love of country and a dedication to duty - that was more important than life itself. And their self-sacrifice is what made this country possible.
I HAVE held a job, Howard! What about you?"

For those who don't remember - During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was an attorney representing the Communist Party in the USA
If you can read this, thank a teacher.... If you are reading it in English thank a Veteran.
------------------------------------------

SrA Lucas St.Laurent
159th Fighter Wing/AMXS
if you even begin to argue with that you are truly the most ignorant person alive

owned
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liberals arent bad, its just most of them have stupid, radical ideas that will never work

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Old May 24th, 2005, 02:20 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toXic
For everyone here who likes to blame bush for us being in Iraq, and in war with them, i would like to politely tell you to, STFU.

The reason being, it isnt his fault we are at war. He does not control when we go to war(OMG AM I SERIOUS?!?!). In fact its the CONGRESS that decides. Dont believe me? didnt thikn you did. So here you go, heres a link to the US constitution.

http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Constitution.html
Check out Section 8 Clause 11. If your to lazy to look at it, here you go anyway, "Clause 11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;" it does not address congress directly in that clause, but sec8 is all about congress.
ok congress can declare war. but earlier in 2003, congress GAVE president bush the power to make a desicion with iraq. he obviously chose to invade iraq. congress gave him that power, so its more bush AND congress. and even if congress didn't want to go to war, bush had the power to override that.
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Old May 24th, 2005, 02:52 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toXic
For everyone here who likes to blame bush for us being in Iraq, and in war with them, i would like to politely tell you to, STFU.

The reason being, it isnt his fault we are at war. He does not control when we go to war(OMG AM I SERIOUS?!?!). In fact its the CONGRESS that decides. Dont believe me? didnt thikn you did. So here you go, heres a link to the US constitution.

http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Constitution.html
Check out Section 8 Clause 11. If your to lazy to look at it, here you go anyway, "Clause 11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;" it does not address congress directly in that clause, but sec8 is all about congress.

so in layman's terms your calling bush a puppet for congress?

yea...
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Old May 24th, 2005, 03:12 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jag8
thank god clinton was around to mend the first bush's F up's.

and atleast in most wars (with the exception of vietnam) we were atleast fighting for a cause. we went into iraq looking for nukes in order to defend our freedom. no nukes found.

but we sure kicked their ass......
wait, how do you leave out vietnam? ho chi minh didnt murder thousands of people. infact, if he didnt declare himself communist, he could have been a close US ally. we had no reason to go to vietnam. the war on iraq, on the other hand, was fully justified.
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Old May 24th, 2005, 03:14 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toXic
For everyone here who likes to blame bush for us being in Iraq, and in war with them, i would like to politely tell you to, STFU.

The reason being, it isnt his fault we are at war. He does not control when we go to war(OMG AM I SERIOUS?!?!). In fact its the CONGRESS that decides. Dont believe me? didnt thikn you did. So here you go, heres a link to the US constitution.

http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Constitution.html
Check out Section 8 Clause 11. If your to lazy to look at it, here you go anyway, "Clause 11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;" it does not address congress directly in that clause, but sec8 is all about congress.

not to mention that last offical decalration of war was WW2 but you know we can't go to war or anything
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Old May 24th, 2005, 03:17 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by NYY
wait, how do you leave out vietnam? ho chi minh didnt murder thousands of people. infact, if he didnt declare himself communist, he could have been a close US ally. we had no reason to go to vietnam. the war on iraq, on the other hand, was fully justified.
vietnam was one of the most controversial wars ever. every war is going to be controversial, with a very few exceptions. but like others before it is our duty to question the goverment and keep them in check. if we dont do this we are ignorign the most powerful check and balance in the system. i'm not saying the war is or isn't justifed. its just our duty to bring to light subecjts and matters to make people are aware.

BTW anyone be it rep, dem, liberal or anything that agrees with someone just because they are of the same political system is an idiot. i'm not accusing anyone of it, but it does seem like there is alot of the blind leading the blind.


whoops though i hit edit.... sorry guys
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Old May 24th, 2005, 03:35 PM   #16 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Sinnerman
2. When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, think about the following.

-FDR...led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.
Japan and Germany were allies
If japan attacked us and we declare war on them then Germany would do the same to us.
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Old May 24th, 2005, 03:56 PM   #17 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Sinnerman
3. In the two years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has liberated two countries...
Woohoo, we tore down governments! That is fairly simple to do. The hard part (the one which we are currently having trouble doing) is the exit strategy aka reconstruction. There's a quote I heard a while back:

"What we are currently doing in Iraq and Afghanastan would be like if the French, after the Revolutionary War, had decided what kind of government we would have, and how it would function."

Not to start a flame or anything, but political figures these days are REALLY pissing me off...
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Old May 24th, 2005, 04:07 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jag8
so in layman's terms your calling bush a puppet for congress?

yea...

Actually, yes. He doesnt have as much power as people thinks he does.
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Old May 24th, 2005, 04:19 PM   #19 (permalink)
 
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I can't tell you really who's go the most control, but i can tell you this.


Liberal and Democrat are not the same.
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Old May 24th, 2005, 04:50 PM   #20 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Sinnerman

2. When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, think about the following.

-FDR...led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.

-Truman...finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year.

-John F. Kennedy. .started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.

-Johnson...turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.
I respect what you have to say in this... but I just wanna jump in on these. WWII was dubbed "The Last Good War." It was the one where we know who the bad guys were. We took the strategic places we needed from Japan... but we had to get to Europe... because Germany, the ally of those people who attacked us, were gonna win if we didn't. Sucks that a lot of people died, but that war REALLY was a nessecary one.

Korea... That's all Cold War politics. "We'll do everything in our power to stop communism." Could have been worded better, but eh. We wanted a way into China just in case, and Korea was a good landing zone. MacArthur saw an opportunity to get some glory by taking Korea up to China... in case the reds wanted some. Vietnam was the same thing. The Cold War was just stupid, but it happens.

I just wanna say... the best way to justify the actions of a person, is NOT to bring up past things that have happened. The past is the past. If the best way to prove a point is to say.. "Well this person did this!!! and that's worse!!" then it's not a good argument.

But yeah, all the stuff you posted is pretty interesting... and a good comparison.
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Old May 24th, 2005, 08:51 PM   #21 (permalink)
 
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Actually, yes. He doesnt have as much power as people thinks he does.

the president has the power to influence many people on the decisions they make.

that happend to be one of hitlers best qualities, along with public speaking. that got majority of germany to side with him.
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Old May 24th, 2005, 09:19 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Everybody has the power to not listen or go by what people are influencing them with. All because he has influence, doesnt mean they have to do it.

Just like Charles manson, he influenced those kids, but they didnt have to kill the people. Just like a drug dealer, they can influence you to buy or sell drugs, but YOU have the choice to buy them or not.
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Old May 24th, 2005, 09:52 PM   #23 (permalink)
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ok but when the leader that millions of people elected as president tells you something is true or isnt true, you shouldnt have to worry about him lying.
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Old May 24th, 2005, 10:03 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Thats true also. But you ever thought the stuff he says isnt what he *wants* to say? I mean come on, there not gonna let one guy hold the countrys fate. Especially a texan lol
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Old May 24th, 2005, 11:46 PM   #25 (permalink)
 
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Thats true also. But you ever thought the stuff he says isnt what he *wants* to say? I mean come on, there not gonna let one guy hold the countrys fate. Especially a texan lol


patriot act..... thankfully they wisen uped and struck down alot of it. btw i was kidding about the whole bush runnign the country through the patriot act
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