Electric cars - Paintball Forum - Paintball guns and gear forums

Reply

Old April 4th, 2012, 04:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
Super Legit
 
Trbo323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Washington
Posts: 14,001
Electric cars

so wanted to run this by you guys to get your opinions on it and see if you think its even feasible. Yesterday I was thinking about electric cars and kinda came to the conclusion that in order for e-cars to kind of catch on all you would really need at this point is some way to pull into a "gas" station and fill up quickly instead of waiting around for hours.

so what about changing the whole battery out?

yes you would have to design cars around this idea but so what? Heres what im thinking, the batteries are roughly 300lbs at this point, what if you mount them just under the frame rails on the bottom of the car and essentially set it up so when you pull into a station, the battery can be slid out like a dresser drawer and removed most likely on some kind of fork lift and a new one installed? Yes I know this would require car manufactures to all use the same style of battery but its not like they dont all use gas or tires already that is kind of a universal thing, even if they could not all agree to use the same battery you would just end up with every city having the honda gas station and the toyota and ford so on and so forth

if any of you are familiar with the welding industry or a lot of gas canister industries this is what they do, instead of filling your own personal tank what happens is you bring your empty tank in to them and they just give you a full one and charge you for the fill, this is why whenever you see someone who needs an oxygen breathing tank its always the same green tank. I think if the tank is damaged or unusable for some reason that was your fault then there is an extra charge but typically you just pay for the fill

in the same way the "gas" station would be charging a bunch of batteries and you would just pick up a fresh one when you come in and give them your dead one.

anyway, one of the guys i work with seemed to think this is the most impossible idea ever and I just wanted to see what you guys thought of it
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


^^^If you are new, click here^^^


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

^^^ Putting together your tool bag?? Click here! ^^^

Last edited by Trbo323; April 4th, 2012 at 04:59 PM..
Trbo323 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old April 4th, 2012, 05:32 PM   #2 (permalink)
I was saving that bacon
 
toXic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 7,177
Blog Entries: 1
I have thought of this before in the past, it isn't unreasonable. However, some problems would come up. If a "gas" station swaps out the batteries, what happens if they receive a bad battery? I know they use to cost like $3000 per battery.

Also, how much would you charge to do it? It sounds like a simple swap, but it could take 20-30 minutes to swap it out.

etc...
__________________
I had to change from Wesley's sig and avatar. I was tired of Medic and Doomsydaisy sending me nudes
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
toXic is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2012, 06:15 PM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Riddler236's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 2,317
Electric cars are stupid. They might be the future some day, but current technology is several times worse for the environment than combustion-engined cars. Longevity is also significantly limited.

I just want bio-diesel to catch on here.
Riddler236 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2012, 08:02 PM   #4 (permalink)
Authoritah!
 
martix_agent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 23,645
You do know that trains are Desil-Electric, right? And Riddler is right, the production of these "environmentally friendly" cars is not good at all for the earth and they also cost a LOT of money to dispose of properly.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
martix_agent is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2012, 10:16 AM   #5 (permalink)
Huge Car Guy
 
teamwelnick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 199
Electric cars at the moment are silly because they have a pathetic range, ridiculous charging time, and are very expensive.

Diesel cars have the most similar performance with 10000x better mileage, however purists like myself hate diesels because they sound like they run on minced lions and the engines operate so much differently.

Hydrogen power is the viable way of the future, it has identical performance with unlimited fuel supply. Hydrogen cars exist, but the international infrastructure for them doesn't

We'll all be dead before we run out of gas anyway, the government will sit on Alaska until the rest of the world runs out.
__________________
~Christian Paintballer~

Quote:
If it's good enough for a glock, it can probably withstand paintball.

Proto Rail '11
Smart Parts Ion
teamwelnick is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2012, 10:26 AM   #6 (permalink)
Super Legit
 
Trbo323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Washington
Posts: 14,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by toXic View Post
I have thought of this before in the past, it isn't unreasonable. However, some problems would come up. If a "gas" station swaps out the batteries, what happens if they receive a bad battery? I know they use to cost like $3000 per battery.

Also, how much would you charge to do it? It sounds like a simple swap, but it could take 20-30 minutes to swap it out.

etc...
as far as i know when a welding shop gets a tank that is up for hydro they take care of it, the price for that is taken care of by them. this is also why fills are typically around $15 even though they are fairly small tanks. some maintenance is figured into the cost of each fill.

why do you think it would take 20-30 min? with a fork lift you could unload 2 tons of stuff from a semi truck in that time, all im thinking is lift a cover, release a locking mechanism, slide the dead battery out the side onto the forklift, install the new one (possibly already on the same forklift) lock it in place and close the cover, all the connections to the car would be made at the other end of the sliding rack when the battery comes in so you would not have to manually connect anything to the battery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddler236 View Post
Electric cars are stupid. They might be the future some day, but current technology is several times worse for the environment than combustion-engined cars.
how so?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


^^^If you are new, click here^^^


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

^^^ Putting together your tool bag?? Click here! ^^^
Trbo323 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2012, 10:59 AM   #7 (permalink)
I was saving that bacon
 
toXic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 7,177
Blog Entries: 1
You have to remember, that telling them you want a battery swap and paying for it will take about 5 minutes. Gas stations are usually busy in any populated areas.

First, the car would have to be jacked up or drove up a ramp.

For the cover, where it is under the car, it will have to be secured. So you couldn't just have a cover that simple lifts/lowers off. You would need a minimum of 4 bolts to secure it some what safely. That wouldn't be very time consuming, however, the battery its self would also have to be in securely. Where it weighs so much, it would be held in by at least 8 more bolts.


Now, you could easily make it with levers and latches like you mentioned, however, I don't think that would pass the safety and stress tests the companies would do. You could also save time by having the "cover" part of the actual battery its self. Just have them all a standard black or grey and it wouldn't be a problem.

Also, I think you may mention something about having a rack or something and sliding the battery out under the door instead of actually dropping it, however, all current electric cars are so low, that this would be impossible due to such small ground clearance.
__________________
I had to change from Wesley's sig and avatar. I was tired of Medic and Doomsydaisy sending me nudes
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
toXic is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2012, 11:37 AM   #8 (permalink)
Super Legit
 
Trbo323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Washington
Posts: 14,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by toXic View Post
You have to remember, that telling them you want a battery swap and paying for it will take about 5 minutes. Gas stations are usually busy in any populated areas.
really? it takes you 5 min to walk into a gas station now and tell the attendant you want $20 on pump 5 and pay for it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by toXic View Post
First, the car would have to be jacked up or drove up a ramp.
no it wouldnt, your thinking about cars that are currently out there, im saying the car would be designed around this concept, think of dresser drawer rails that slide out, you would simply put forklift forks under that and lift it out straight up not drop it down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toXic View Post
For the cover, where it is under the car, it will have to be secured. So you couldn't just have a cover that simple lifts/lowers off. You would need a minimum of 4 bolts to secure it some what safely. That wouldn't be very time consuming, however, the battery its self would also have to be in securely. Where it weighs so much, it would be held in by at least 8 more bolts.
the cover is just like the hood of a car, just an aesthetic thing so the battery is not seen all day long or exposed to the elements, same as your engine the hood doesnt hold the engine in place nor do you need to unbolt it to open it

for the battery what would really hold it in is the rails it is on, those of course would be bolted securely to the car. you do know most truck beds are held in place by 4 bolts right? why would a 300lb battery be so much more dangerous? most canopies for trucks are held on by 4 very run of the mill bolts or even clamps.

essentially its just a more substantial minivan door mounted under a car, last i checked those dont need handfuls of bolts to be considered safe and there are people on the other side of those



Quote:
Originally Posted by toXic View Post
Now, you could easily make it with levers and latches like you mentioned, however, I don't think that would pass the safety and stress tests the companies would do.
why not? im not saying use fence latches from home depot, yes the stuff would have some decent metal behind it but its not like engine mounts dont or anything else that holds heavy parts of a car

Quote:
Originally Posted by toXic View Post
Also, I think you may mention something about having a rack or something and sliding the battery out under the door instead of actually dropping it, however, all current electric cars are so low, that this would be impossible due to such small ground clearance.
yes as i said the car would have to be designed around this idea, it would never work as a retrofit for an existing setup due to that issue, but a wide and long but flat battery right under the floor of the car, sure, honda already has one a lot like that they mount right behind the rear seat in the civic hybrid, all im saying is move the location and make it able to come out easily.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


^^^If you are new, click here^^^


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

^^^ Putting together your tool bag?? Click here! ^^^
Trbo323 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2012, 11:47 AM   #9 (permalink)
Erect member.
 
hurdlebeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,323
The difference is that this would have to be a full-service deal, I'm assuming. Doesn't take a degree to fill a gas tank, but it would take some know-how to operate the machinery required to load the battery into the vehicle.

The biggest problem I have with the whole electric car fill-ups at normal gas stations is that you have an area that, under the right (wrong?) conditions (a dry, hot day) is very volatile with fuel-air mixtures, and you'd be adding in an electric source with a high chance for electrical arcing. Seems like a recipe for disaster, to me at least.
__________________
Quote:
or we could all go on one hell of a camping trip
hurdlebeast is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2012, 08:39 PM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Riddler236's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 2,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trbo323 View Post
how so?
Electric Cars Can Create More Emissions Than Gas Cars | Auto in the Know

Study shows impact of electric cars is worse than petrol-powered vehicles | Mail Online

Most people fail to consider the environmental impact of the manufacturing process of E-cars and their batteries, which only last 5-8 years, tops, before you incur the additional environmental impact of a new one. Note that the average age of cars on the road today is >10 years, so to compare apples to apples, you really should factor in that 2nd battery. Also worth consideration is the source of the electricity you're charging the car with. Unless you have a wind turbine in your backyard and solar panels on your roof, your power is probably largely coal/nuclear-based.
Riddler236 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2012, 08:45 PM   #11 (permalink)
Established member
 
tlmiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: AZ, USA
Posts: 9,221
I like Nuke energy. Despite what all the critics of it would have you believe, it's EXTREMELY clean, and in NEWER facilities, extremely safe also (note, the facility in Japan was one of the oldest designs and hadn't been upgraded to safety specs that were released in 80's designs, much less modern designs).
__________________
Yes, I have long since accepted that I have issues, with that said, here's:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
tlmiller is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2012, 01:32 PM   #12 (permalink)
Super Legit
 
Trbo323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Washington
Posts: 14,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurdlebeast View Post
The difference is that this would have to be a full-service deal, I'm assuming. Doesn't take a degree to fill a gas tank, but it would take some know-how to operate the machinery required to load the battery into the vehicle.

The biggest problem I have with the whole electric car fill-ups at normal gas stations is that you have an area that, under the right (wrong?) conditions (a dry, hot day) is very volatile with fuel-air mixtures, and you'd be adding in an electric source with a high chance for electrical arcing. Seems like a recipe for disaster, to me at least.
at most you are talking about someone having a forklift operators license, really this could all easily be done with a pallet jack, nothing you need a ton of know how to operate.

im not saying incorporate this into a gas station right now, the stations would have to be built for this, i also think it would be a bad idea to have people filling gas tanks next to people changing batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddler236 View Post
Electric Cars Can Create More Emissions Than Gas Cars | Auto in the Know

Study shows impact of electric cars is worse than petrol-powered vehicles | Mail Online

Most people fail to consider the environmental impact of the manufacturing process of E-cars and their batteries, which only last 5-8 years, tops, before you incur the additional environmental impact of a new one. Note that the average age of cars on the road today is >10 years, so to compare apples to apples, you really should factor in that 2nd battery. Also worth consideration is the source of the electricity you're charging the car with. Unless you have a wind turbine in your backyard and solar panels on your roof, your power is probably largely coal/nuclear-based.
Iv seen plenty of statements like these but really they typically have some big holes, for instance the first one you have even states

when the emissions from the car’s total lifespan are taken into consideration, including the car’s production and disposal, some of the CO2 savings made from driving the car are offset. The study contends that “overall electric and hybrid vehicles still have lower carbon footprints than normal cars."

it goes on to dive into the battery issue but thats where things always get fuzzy, articles like these always say that the e-car battery needs to be replaced and that needs to be taken into consideration but they always leave out that the gas car in the same span also needs maintenance and has gone through 20 or so oil changes and possibly a battery or 2 of its own (in the last 5 years i believe I have gone through 2 batteries in my civic) If these studies really wanted to be un-bias they really need to take the same criteria into consideration when looking at both vehicles

as for the second one heres the issue with it

"They found that the electricity generated to power electric cars caused more particulate matter pollution than that caused by an equivalent number of petrol driven vehicles."

they are not looking at the car, they are looking at the power production, two separate issues, if for instance this study was done in France where they are about 80% Nuclear power last i checked, it would find the exact opposite conclusion, so in essence they are saying that e-cars EVERYWHERE are worse because the power produced to charge them in the ONE area they did their test is worse. Also nobody stops to think how many tons of diesel the tanker that was carrying the crude oil to the US burned on the way or how much energy was used in the cracking process to turn it into gas in the first place, for some reason these issues are left out when looking at the gas cars pollution but are included for the e-car

Im a fan of e-cars, no I will not buy one yet I still think the technology has a ways to go but I think people are looking to buy the PERFECT e-car that is made of recycled paper with the proceeds going to starving children in Africa and the whole thing can be planted in their garden when it eventually needs to be replaced where it will grow a garden full of vegetables for them right now and it somehow needs to be here overnight and thats just not going to happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlmiller View Post
I like Nuke energy. Despite what all the critics of it would have you believe, it's EXTREMELY clean, and in NEWER facilities, extremely safe also (note, the facility in Japan was one of the oldest designs and hadn't been upgraded to safety specs that were released in 80's designs, much less modern designs).
I am as well, the problem in the US is government is so scared of it they have been placing stricter and stricter safety things on it since the 80s which puts the production cost of building a new facility out of range, basically it would cost too much for anyone to turn a profit on at this point. Nuclear is the cleanest and the safest way of producing large quantities of energy (did a HUGE research report on it a few years back)

in the history of Nuclear power there have only been 3 notable cases of concern, Chernobyl of course which was a terrible terrible reactor design run by people who threw safety out the window to try and get results, also a reactor that did not have any containment beyond the essentially warehouse building it was built in

3-mile island which was a partial melt down that was EXTREMELY well contained that resulted from essentially a really bad chain of events that was blown WAY out of proportion by the media (think swine flu)

and there is a very little heard of military reactor that had a partial melt down, that one is REALLY hard to find info on but if my memory is correct it was a partial meltdown, a few operators died but everything was contained

I think nuclear reactors should be pushed underground, think about it, anything happens you already have a hundred or so feet of material in the way to block radiation.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


^^^If you are new, click here^^^


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

^^^ Putting together your tool bag?? Click here! ^^^

Last edited by Trbo323; April 6th, 2012 at 01:39 PM..
Trbo323 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2012, 06:10 PM   #13 (permalink)
Its never lupus
 
sNoW PIrAnHa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Five One Oh
Posts: 9,169
Cars will run on unicorn tears before rechargeable batteries.
__________________
"I have no mercy or compassion in me for a society that will crush people, and then penalize them for not being able to stand up to the weight"- Malcom X
sNoW PIrAnHa is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2012, 02:49 PM   #14 (permalink)
Super Legit
 
Trbo323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Washington
Posts: 14,001
anyone think hydrogen cars will ever work out?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


^^^If you are new, click here^^^


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

^^^ Putting together your tool bag?? Click here! ^^^
Trbo323 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2012, 04:34 PM   #15 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Riddler236's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 2,317
Maybe some day, but no time soon. There's just no infrastructure for extracting, transporting and storing the stuff.
Riddler236 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2012, 05:36 PM   #16 (permalink)
I was saving that bacon
 
toXic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 7,177
Blog Entries: 1
In 1935 a man ran a car using Water for several minutes. How? By generating Hydrogen with electrolysis. If a guy could do it 77 years ago there is no reason somebody couldn't have it perfected now.


IF there was ever a conspiracy I would believe in, I would be something with this. It seems like anybody who creates a device or has since the 80's has wound up dying or being convicted of fraud. Kinda odd.
__________________
I had to change from Wesley's sig and avatar. I was tired of Medic and Doomsydaisy sending me nudes
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
toXic is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2012, 06:53 PM   #17 (permalink)
Super Legit
 
Trbo323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Washington
Posts: 14,001
problem with electrolysis is in order to get the hydrogen and oxygen to split takes more energy than you can get out of it so its pretty ineffective way of powering a car (by the thought process that you would just put water in the tank and go) seeing as you would also need enough battery power to fuel the process. its at least a decent way to produce the hydrogen but my understanding was the hydrogen molecules were so small they essentially slowly leak straight out the walls of any container we have made thus far (because the molecules of whatever we make the tank out of are larger and spaced further apart than hydrogen)

the way i understand it production is an issue but not as big of one as how to store the hydrogen
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


^^^If you are new, click here^^^


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

^^^ Putting together your tool bag?? Click here! ^^^
Trbo323 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2012, 02:33 AM   #18 (permalink)
Erect member.
 
hurdlebeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,323
I'm working on the solution. Give me a year or so, I'll get back to you all on it
__________________
Quote:
or we could all go on one hell of a camping trip
hurdlebeast is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums
Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc. Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1