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Old October 31st, 2004, 02:59 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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The Politics of Fear

Anyone noticed how politicians no longer offer hope for the future but instead use fear to pusuade voters that they can protect them best? This is a very bad thing. If it wern't for the terrorism thing then Kerry would win this thing no worries. But because Bush has painted a picture of himself as some kind of political/military genius who's on a mission sent by god to defend the world from 'evil', he's suddenly a serious candidate.
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Old October 31st, 2004, 04:21 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Im guessing your a Kerry supporter...
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Old October 31st, 2004, 07:08 AM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Bush is a serious canidate because some of us actually look at the world in a realistic prespective.

People that beleive we shouldnt have gone to war are self centered panzys. They only care about themsleves and no one else. As long as THEY are safe at the time then we are OK. They promote world peace and say that us going to iraq is not supporting world peace. Once again all these people think about is themselves. As long as America is peacefull...then in thier eyes the world is peaceful.

We WILL NEVER have world peace untill we get rid of certain people JUST LIKE SADDAM. And we will never rid the world or war unless we take some type of action. And you must be asking....why us? ***Because we are the strongest country in the world***

If we arnt going to stand up and do something...then who will? What the world needs is someone to take charge and with these "evil doers"...which is us.

Unlike some people...i can see that in order to get world peace...we first must get rid of these horrible leaders. ALSO...just because there is no threat now...does not mean ther will not be a threat when our children are older.

We cant sit in our lil box and pretend all the wars and genocide around us is not happening....it IS happening and unless we do somethign about it, the problem will simply grow and grow...and eventually affect us directly.
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Old October 31st, 2004, 07:49 AM   #4 (permalink)
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i honestly do not see how bush is looking at the world in a 'realstic way'. we are the strongest country in the world, does that REALLY give us the right to invade other countries? no it does not. bush claims he is fighting a 'war on terrorism'. that doesnt even make sense. there are domestic terrorist groups that have and probably still exist in the US! there is terrorism is practically every country. so unless we 'INVADE THE WORLD' will terrorism be stopped. its not that i WANT people like saddam hussein running a country, we have our own domestic problems. buddy, we live in the UNITED ****IGN STATES NOT ****ING IRAQ. he iraqis can wait for their turn, id rather see our country grow than to see iraq invaded. there are countries that are equally as strong as us, just because we happen to be the strngest makes no difference whatsoever. and then you make it seem as if we are the only country fighting. england is fighting alongside with us but does anyone EVER mention them? or the 'coalition'. you know, there are TONS of other countries with oppressive rulers. what about cuba? how is fidel castro any different than saddam hussein? you know there is alot more to invading iraq than what george bush claims. first it was because of WMD, then it was an oppressive ruler, then it was terrorism. wtf what is it? iraq isnt any better than it was under saddam hussein. allt he nationalists are blowing themselves up and killing our troops. we bombed the **** out of their cities. life under saddam hussein probably wasnt that different. if saddam was suge a 'huge' threat then why didnt other countries decide to take a stand
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Old October 31st, 2004, 08:05 AM   #5 (permalink)
 
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I agree with ja289. Just because the US has the strongest economy and military doens't give it the right to force its moral values upon other nations. All forcing democracy and freedom on people does is aleinate them becuase they come to associate democracy with drastic upheaval, violence, unemployment and death.

All the worlds storng democracy's today developed on their own. They worked out the freedom thing for themselves. It is foolish and stupid to believe that we can change the world through military conquest.

Military action is an answer to a problem, it is by it's very nature reactive, not proactive.
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Old October 31st, 2004, 10:03 AM   #6 (permalink)
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IT sounds hypocritical, but you can't stop any killing without killing the killers. There has to be war to end war.
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Old October 31st, 2004, 11:06 AM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Jon stewart said it best...

Cheney essentially walks into a room and says "Your all gonna die. Unless.. you elect me."
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Old October 31st, 2004, 11:13 AM   #8 (permalink)
 
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they said that WW1 was a the war to end all wars. they said that WW2 was the war to end all wars. It sounds hypocritical because it is.

War is a symptom of the disease, not the disease in itself. lets look at some example:

WW1: the disease in this case is the exspansionist policies of the old imperial powers - Britain, France, Russia, the Austro-Hungarian Empire and Germany (actually quite a new power) The belief that they wereall somehow better than on another led to the first truely industrialised war and to the deathof almost an entire generation of young men.

WW2: The disease is Nasism and the exspansionist policy's of Hitler. Prety simple really, the difficult part is understanding how Hitler came to power in the first place adn where his and other, extremist policies came from.

The Second Gulf War, as it will be known to historians was a symptom of the problem that some people in the United States have the 'god given' right to do pretty much what they want with no regard to the rest of the world. Guess what, the rest of the world doens't really see it that way. in fact as far as most Arabs are concerned, they'd rather you shoved off.

Don't be insulted, they just dont' want the US interferring in what they consider to be their affairs. Just in the same way that Americans don't like peopel interefereing in their business.
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Old October 31st, 2004, 08:11 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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With power comes responsibility..since the US is a world power...they have the responsibilty of helping the world out..and he is by getting rid of a homicidal dictator who killed and tortured their olympians for failing..thats right..sadaam actually did that...

the majority of Iraqis support the US in thier country...Bush has done a wonderful job in taking out both terrorist and PLACES THAT HARBOR TERRORISTS...like iraq

Saddam husien was a horrible dictaor who killed thousands of his own people. Everyone will be glad in 10 years when they realize how much safer the world will be with a self sustaining democracy in the middle east.

And guess what...a lot of the world is with us..WE HAVE 4 OF THE 6 WORLD ECONOMIES ON OUR SIDE!!!!. the only 2 we dont have is germany and france...but they are pansies..and always have been.
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Old October 31st, 2004, 08:27 PM   #10 (permalink)
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[QUOTE] bush claims he is fighting a 'war on terrorism'. that doesnt even make sense. there are domestic terrorist groups that have and probably still exist in the US! there is terrorism is practically every country. so unless we 'INVADE THE WORLD' will terrorism be stopped. </quote>

I would agree that there are likely terrorists in every part of the world. But where do 99.99% of them originate from? Middle East. Thats actually pretty obvious, so I assume your just plagurising your info without actually reading it.

So the middle-east is the problem. WHo is the richest source of funding for terrorists? Saddam Hussein. Again, that is also pretty obvious. Castro is not funding terrorists. He is only a threat to his own people.

Quote:
if saddam was suge a 'huge' threat then why didnt other countries decide to take a stand
Like when Iran or Kuwair "stood up to him"? or when the kurds or Shi'ites "stood up to him"? The ENTIRE middle-east fears him because he was richest enough to simply BUY himself the worlds 4th largest army, and did not take orders from religious leaders. Again, all obvious stuff.

Anyway. Plagurism is cool, but don't do that in school. You will get in trouble.

By the way, every poll of Iraqiis shows that the vast majority say there lives are FAR better then before. I understand that some people do not like Bush because they are liberals and are mad that conservatives hold every part of goverment right now.
I understand how that could be frustrating. But lying does not help your argument. It just makes you look wacko.

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Old October 31st, 2004, 08:29 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Flatliner (and anybody else who said the same thing) thing is due to seperation of religeon and state he is not evil (a christianic term that means associated with the devil) he is merely a dictator running his country, and maybe you havnt noticed but before we went in is was economicly sound. He killed his own people, so ****ing what he was using his right as a dictator to furthure his countrys econemy (as in the olympics). The Iraquis dont want democracy they were born and have lived there lives under a dictatorship, so to them it is best just like to us democracy is best. Unfortunatly polotics (in every country) is governed by religion, our revolution was the result of religion so why not leave theres to there religeon? Why do we have to impose our religion on them by calling them evil, by saying what he did was wrong (back to the christianic beliefs)?
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Old October 31st, 2004, 08:36 PM   #12 (permalink)
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So why would you vote with Kerry if you disagree with the war in Iraq then? Kerry voted to go to Iraq the same way Bush did. And Kerry even after saying that this war in Iraq is wrong said that knowing that he'd still have chose to gone as well? So why would you vote for Kerry if your resoning is Iraq? I'll tell you why, cause your too ignorant to see that Kerry has not one point that he has ever stood by, he's already lied way more than Bush ever supposedly has, and how can you trust a candidate that never stands by any issue ever? Kerry's just trying to get votes, he doesn't know how to be a president.
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Old October 31st, 2004, 08:56 PM   #13 (permalink)
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2 simple Steps to fixing America.

1. Nationalism. Nobody has pride in their country anymore.
2. Unbiased media. Nobody gets the real story and peoples views are always corrupt.

I thinik we're doing fine right now. Only we could use a bit more pride, and we could use a media thats not so gay.
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Old October 31st, 2004, 09:02 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
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I think we could use a bit more respect too
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Old October 31st, 2004, 09:19 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Respect is earned. Right now, the way some americans are acting/thinking, I dont think we deserve any respect. Maybe its just becuase I live in Massachusetts.. And massachusetts sucks.. But nobody cares about the country.

You see videos of people stomping on flags and disrespecting soldiers. There is no more value of service anymore. If you served in the military, all you get is dirty stares.

We're so obese its not even funny! What does that tell teh rest of the world? I mean the part of the world thats starving? We eat so much food, and we waste whatever we don't eat.

Would it take so much out of your day to be thankful? Every time I meet someone who has served in the military, even someone I hate, I thank them. Take SniperFire for example. We were always at each others throats. But I even said to him in the imddle of an argument, "Thank you for serving this country, I'm thankful for that".

A simple thankyou can make someones day.

People think that if they are okay and fine, that the rest of the world is. Well newsflash, if you see a pregnant lady on the train standing, are you just going to bury your face in your damn newspaper adn forget she's there? If you see a country being oppressed and tortured starved and gassed over and over, are you just going to bury your face in your subway sandwich and see what happens on oprah next week?

So they're not americans. That doesn't mean they aren't people. THat doesn't mean they don't deserve basic rights. Not all rights are needed by all peoples.. But the rights of life, liberty, and the right to own property are basic ideas that have been around since the age of reason.

Right now the media is ****ed up. You turn on the TV and if your not hearing about all teh bad stuff going on in america, your haring abotu the basd stuff abotu the war in Iraq. People fail to realise that the news doesn't show every story and you can't base your beliefs on the news.

The news is going to show all teh bad stuff that happens in iraq, and any bad stuff that will make bush look bad. Take the asault weapons ban sunset. They showed pictures of AK-47's and M4A1's and said that they are now legal. But guess what? Those weapons were illegal for years before the aw ban. Some lady even said that those weapons are no more powerful then hunting rifles. Even though she SAID that and she verbally gave out the truth, the station still made it seem like the assault weapons were a big threat to the US.

They make it look like theres no troops in afghanistan and that we're focusing too much on iraq. Afghanistan is all but stable now. Sure there are still some bad guys out there, but we kicked ass, set up elections and all is going well. We actually have more soldiers there now then ever.

They use numbers a lot to fool you. They try to make it look like bush is doing a bad thing to the military by making them go to war. Well... Newsflash, they signed their lives away to the military. When they signed the doted lines, they are even subject to test new medications. They give their life to the military for their term of duty. Thats why I am so appreciative to anyone who serves. I dont care if you ended up peeling potatoes for the whole time. You served my country and I'm proud.

If people just followed those two rules... Take pride in teh military. And dont listen to the news... We'd be so much greater.
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Old November 1st, 2004, 12:06 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatliner105
People that beleive we shouldnt have gone to war are self centered panzys. They only care about themsleves and no one else. As long as THEY are safe at the time then we are OK. They promote world peace and say that us going to iraq is not supporting world peace. Once again all these people think about is themselves. As long as America is peacefull...then in thier eyes the world is peaceful.
Bull****. Just because someone doesn't have the same views as you doesn't mean they're "panzys" (sic). I believe that we should worry about our own problems before we worry about others'. To quote the Bible, Matthew 7:5, "You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother's eye."

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Originally Posted by Flatliner105
We WILL NEVER have world peace
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Old November 1st, 2004, 12:35 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Funny that you'd quote the Bible yet you'd forget that we should help others in need rather than splurge in ourselves. We're plenty well off, if you'd travel the world maybe you'd see just how crappy most of the non-american/european continents have it. I'd like to think of us as a non-selfish nation, although that's obviously not the case when 95% of the nation thinks money is the biggest and most meaningful thing in the world.

Seems anything these days is justified if it was for the money. I could get more into it but I'm not going to bother.
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Old November 1st, 2004, 02:22 AM   #18 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by visionimpulse2k

And guess what...a lot of the world is with us..WE HAVE 4 OF THE 6 WORLD ECONOMIES ON OUR SIDE!!!!. the only 2 we dont have is germany and france...but they are pansies..and always have been.
And Spain homie. They dropped out because of the Madrid bombings.

The way I see it... the world won't be "safe" until we get rid of all the unsafe people. Yeah... that sounds a lot like that abstract war on drugs we have... that will never end. The best I think we can do is prepare for the worst, so when something happens, we can save as many people as we can. I'm down with proactivity like capping Osama... but EVERY country has terrorists being "harbored." We can't fight everybody... Idealism is a good thing, but it's still one of those things that never ends. It's a pursuit of perfection... and that pursuit never gets finished.

At this moment... instead of "not changing horses in the middle of a race" I think we should worry about our economy, environment, and all that good stuff. We should fix our problems first, then everybody elses. I don't seek help from depressed people, I think that applies on a larger scale also. If our soldiers are dying on the field... how about we stop buying cruise missles and ****... and start getting them some armor that can stop AK rounds.

This election sucks, I hate Bush and Kerry... but I hate Bush more. Don't change horses in the middle of a race... but if a horse trips on a rock and breaks it's leg... what do we do? we shoot (not literally Mr. Ashcroft) it. I think it's time for a pinch hitter.

And is it just me, or are we re-enacting history here? America is getting bigger and bigger. Our power is spreading... we're in everybodies buisness... I dunno, but I've noticed a trend with most civilizations that get like that. Ya know... Greece, Rome, England... now us. Megalomania is a bad thing. We are not the answer to everybodies prayers.
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Old November 1st, 2004, 06:14 AM   #19 (permalink)
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And is it just me, or are we re-enacting history here? America is getting bigger and bigger. Our power is spreading... we're in everybodies buisness... I dunno, but I've noticed a trend with most civilizations that get like that. Ya know... Greece, Rome, England... now us. Megalomania is a bad thing. We are not the answer to everybodies prayers.
Rome falls.
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Old November 1st, 2004, 11:08 AM   #20 (permalink)
 
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bishops say it is a sin to vote for kerry

The pope is encouraging all countries to join us in Iraq...just for the kid who quoted the bible
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Old November 1st, 2004, 11:12 AM   #21 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Alpha
2 simple Steps to fixing America.

1. Nationalism. Nobody has pride in their country anymore.
2. Unbiased media. Nobody gets the real story and peoples views are always corrupt.

I thinik we're doing fine right now. Only we could use a bit more pride, and we could use a media thats not so gay.
I don't think you understand nationalism. Nationalism is a very bad thing. It isn't anything like Patriotism (which is good). Nationalism is born of anger and resentment. These logically lead to conflict. The ultimate conflict is war.

You can think of the media what you want, but you need to cite your evidence - examples or links to examples. Editorials and opinion columns dont' count btw as they're supposed to be biased.
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Old November 1st, 2004, 11:58 AM   #22 (permalink)
 
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One particularly scary aspect is that America will likely not be the number 1 superpower forever. How do we want to be remembered? DO we want to be remembered?! Not me, I want democracy to live on. As history has shown though every great society is eventually toppled through war or by economic decay. Just look at Rome and Greek history. If China continues with several more decades of massive economic growth they will be able to throw their militaristic weight around big time. By that time we had better have a huge democratic hold on the world (Wether through peaceful means or less desireable wars) otherwise we'll be headed to the brink of nuclear war again.

I hate to make light of all the death over there but all of this American/Arab/Jewish squabling is just distracting Americans from the kettle in the east which is slowly bubbling out of sight.
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Old November 1st, 2004, 09:59 PM   #23 (permalink)
 
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One particularly scary aspect is that America will likely not be the number 1 superpower forever. How do we want to be remembered? DO we want to be remembered?! Not me, I want democracy to live on. As history has shown though every great society is eventually toppled through war or by economic decay. Just look at Rome and Greek history. If China continues with several more decades of massive economic growth they will be able to throw their militaristic weight around big time. By that time we had better have a huge democratic hold on the world (Wether through peaceful means or less desireable wars) otherwise we'll be headed to the brink of nuclear war again.

I hate to make light of all the death over there but all of this American/Arab/Jewish squabling is just distracting Americans from the kettle in the east which is slowly bubbling out of sight.
Strong post. And yeah... History moves west. It always has.
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Old November 1st, 2004, 10:50 PM   #24 (permalink)
 
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"Only the dead have seen the end of war"
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Old November 1st, 2004, 10:56 PM   #25 (permalink)
 
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I agree with almost everything you say JT, very nice!
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