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Discussion Starter #1
kind of an old issue...but it just came to mind

(correct me if im wrong)when a country declares that genocide is occuring in a certain area, they must go in and help with resolve the problem

why is it that no one will call it genocide in africa?
i am in no way saying it is Bush's fault....im saying that it is the world's fault

everyone knows what is happening, why is no one helping????

i think it was Colon Powell that said something about it being genocide...but it was not official and it caused a big comotion

The u.s. is already have enough troubles with money, so for now, we cannot call it genocide
If another country calls it genocide i think the U.S. will follow though

ur thoughts???
 

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The "genocide" issues happened during the Clinton years.
Countries like Rwanda DID declare genocide, but the UN did not want to help.
They have a rule that they "must help if someone declares genocide", so they debated what the word meant for a very long time, until the issue disappeared into a committee.

THIS is the very reason why the UN has become a completely useless organization. It no longer serves any purpose since it no longer has any power.

As for Clinton, most scholars think they he did not want to intervene because of the Somalia incident. That happened the first year in office, and after that HE NO LONGER SENT TROOPS INTO ACTIVE COMBAT ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. To say "gun shy" is an understatement.

Fortunetly, the USA does help now, but most foreign countries actually DO NOT want our help. Instead, they usually use mercs these days.

nick
 

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Black Hawk Down?
People forget that it was actually a SUCESSFULL MISSION, but TV reporters showed footage of US Soldiers being dragged through the streets of Mogadishu, and Clinton pulled everyone out.
The military never forgave him for that.

Nick
 
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black hawk down was based on the incidents in somolia was it not?

*edit* I must type slow...
 

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HP_lovecraft said:
THIS is the very reason why the UN has become a completely useless organization. It no longer serves any purpose since it no longer has any power.

WoW..... One of the very few smart ones left in the world thumup: . It was kinda the same way in Iraq..... The UN wouldnt do a thing to help, but Bush knew what needed to be done.
 

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actually there was a movie on the rwanda genocide on last night on hbo, if you're interested it was on some time between 8-11 (i lost track of time last night).

but yeah, this was the kind of issue the UN was MADE for. But as hp put it, they really didnt do much to help at all, and as a result, millions of people are dead.

as for clintons indecision militarily...its a joke. He was a media whore, and let them influence his decisions too much.
 

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HP_lovecraft said:
Black Hawk Down?
People forget that it was actually a SUCESSFULL MISSION, but TV reporters showed footage of US Soldiers being dragged through the streets of Mogadishu, and Clinton pulled everyone out.
The military never forgave him for that.

Nick

I remember when I went to see that movie in the theaters, and on the way home I heard a never ending stream of curse words directed at Clinton from my dad seeing as how we was active duty at the time.

What many people don’t realize about the Somalia incident is that everything could have happened with little or no casualties if the Clinton administration had allowed any Armor into Somalia. For those of you that have see the movie, you saw that the guys in the Humvee's were pretty much getting ripped to pieces. If APC's were allowed, the number of men killed/wounded would have been very low.
 

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i watched a documentary ont he rwanda genocide. my school has a club called METMUNC (metropolitan united nations committee) its a model UN and theres conferences in different schools, in the actual un too. anyway, we all watched a movie about the rwanda genocide. at first i thought it was going to be boring, but it was very interesting. it was also very brutal and disgusting. if you dont know what it is, these african extremists organized themselves and their leader told them over the radio to kill this group of people called the 'tutsis'. they went into villages, towns, cities killing anyone. the documentary focused on this one village, where the tutsis and this other group both lived together before the genocide, then when the radio announcement came, they were all killed. this one girl happened to survive. she said that they went into the village, killed everyone, then came back the next day and sliced everyone apart to make sure they killed everyone. and the sick part was after the genocide was stopped, they all went back living normally again as neighbors. they interviewed people who killed these tutsis and they said they regret it and did it because they were so persuaded to.
 

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Black hawk down is one of the best movies ever made.

If people actualy took the time to sit down and watch it a couple times, and actually see what happened,they would not see it as just another retarded Hollywood, popcorn munching, feel good, action movie.


(not to mention the great camera work, and directing by Ridley Scott.)
 

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chromekilla said:
If APC's were allowed, the number of men killed/wounded would have been very low.
The reason being that APCs "look bad" on TV. The mission was supposed to be secret, and Somalia was full of reporters.
I suppose that is a legitimate reason, but he also forbid those gunships. What were they called? They could have made a MASSIVE difference.

BTW, for those who liked the movie, I'd suggest buying the book. There was ALOT of interesting stuff that happened that didn't make it into the movie because of time constrants. Or.... at least get the "Special Edition" DVD. It has 2 FANTASTIC documentaries on it.

Nick
 

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No one is prepared to send in a large military force into Africa as their is no way to profit from it.

So far, it looks like everyone will let the African People, or a large portion of them, whipe themselves off the face of this earth.
 

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go see Hotel Rwanda. Its one of the most moving movies i have ever seen. It follows a family trying to survive the genocide.
 

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Magnum said:
No one is prepared to send in a large military force into Africa as their is no way to profit from it.
As opposed too?
Bosnia, Afganistan and Iraq have all been money pits.
The only people who made money were 3rd party contractors, who make money WHEREVER they go.

The primary problem in Africa is most of the countries are run by authoritarian dictators, who are fighting some group of rebels, run by someone who WANTS to be the authoritarian dictator.

The basic problem is WHO DO YOU HELP? If you stop one WARLORD, it only makes the other WARLORD more powerfull. This is why the ONLY succesfull ways of helping have been for the warlord to hire mercenaries, since they have no obligation to "do the right thing".

Now, I'm sure some will say "Well, Iraq has oil.....africa does not". Any??
We have YET to steal ONE DROP of oil from Iraq, but even if your premise is that there is nothing worth stealing in Africa, you have forgotten the NUMBER ONE REASON there is fighting in the first place:
GOLD AND DIAMONDS. They have given the warlords the wealth need to BUY WEAPONS and SOLDIERS to do the evil things they do.

There is certaintly "profit" as you put it.... but HOW do you help.

Nick
 

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yeah you guys all have a point black hawk down was a great movie, but why doesn't someone help then? I mean if there is 2 parties fighting to be "authoritarian dictator" why not just get rid of the people running the country like idiots, and make sure the other party doesn't come up... set up a proper government, but this might result like iraq but still they didn't know about iraq back then so why didn't they do it?
 

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Pr0ph3t said:
Look at Sierra Leone, for instance. The PMCs dominated that place.
They did.... until the UN kicked them out. PMC's (the nice name for "Merc") SCARES THE CRAP out of the UN since they have ABSOLUTELY NO CONTROL over them. They are not bound by any country or international law.

Which is probobly why 1/3rd of our "Coalition" in IRAQ is PMC's.

-Nick
 

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HP_lovecraft said:
They did.... until the UN kicked them out. PMC's (the nice name for "Merc") SCARES THE CRAP out of the UN since they have ABSOLUTELY NO CONTROL over them. They are not bound by any country or international law.

Which is probobly why 1/3rd of our "Coalition" in IRAQ is PMC's.

-Nick
That's why the UN sucks. They don't step in, but when someone else does, they freak out over not having control.
 
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