[stickman436]

This is a debate thread, created for the purpose of debating. Here is how it will work:

A topic will be posted once every few days, at this point the debate will begin. Pick a side on the topic and support your opinion with facts, quotes, etc.

After 2-3 days the current debate will end and a new debate will begin. At this time all members must discontinue posts on the previous topic and begin with the new topic. If you still wish to carry your debate on, PLEASE continue through private messages between users.

Topics will range from current or past events to philosophical, religious, and political questions as well.

Rules:
1. Be mature
2. Please keep posts educated (ex. No posts that say "you f***ing a**hole uber nub. Affirmative action is BS. Stupid noob.") That is unacceptable and will not be tolerated.
3. Keep flaming to a minimum
4. Do NOT post topics or topic ideas in the thread. PM them to me and I will post them when the time comes.

The second topic will be:

What Should The Government Do About Cloning & Stem Cell Research?

Should federal funding be allowed?
Is it ethical?
Should it be allowed at all?
etc.



Let the debate begin....

 

[BlueShox]

We're not allowed to debate religion, I don't think. Just letting you know, so it doesn't get closed. It sounds like a good idea.

I think the idea of this being for the "pursuit of happiness" and contradicting that doesn't matter. There are allready so many things in this country that are done to constrict "happiness" (though it differs on oppinion.) I think that before doing a draft, the military should loosen it's credintials on being a soldier. There are plenty of people willing to go into the military.

 

[TonyD]

No, and for two reasons only.

1. Some people are meant to fight. These, naturally, are the people who inlist in the military. Those of us who are warriors are those who should fighting our battles. Those of us who are not naturally warriors are unfit for combat and most likely would like to avoid it.

2. In the opinion of many, myself included, the United States has not faught a justified war in over sixty years. The government should not be forcing those who would rather avoid battle into fighting an unjustified battle.

With that said, I actually would be quite surprised if anyone on this forum--pro-military or not--would actually argue for reinstating the draft.

 

[stickman436]

Well, our military has been spread thin over the past few years. With president bush's new troop proposal we will have to increase the amount of soldiers we have in the military.

"Iraq dominates the headlines, but the U.S. has other vast military commitments. With permanent bases in 18 foreign countries and troop commitments in more than 100 nations, the sun never sets on America's armed forces."

In order to maintain security is it necesary to increase the amount of soldiers in the armed forces? If the war on terror escalates with Iran or other countries, will a draft be needed? The draft has always been unpopular, but at times, a neccesity.

 

[mLuH]

I am almost positive that it will not happen in our lifetime. We have so many soldiers currently, active duty and reserve, that I really don't think that we will need to have another draft any time in the near future. The ONLY reason I could even fathom it coming into play again, is if another huge multi-country war broke out. I would forsee many people going to canada and mexico to evade the draft, and that most likely the next elected president would grant them amnesty like Jimmy Carter did in '77.


I have many feelings on the subject, none of which would point to there ever being another draft.

 

[Shockz]

No, because some people dont have the mental and physical toughness to be in the army. I think that if you want to risk your life in the army, the choice shoud be made by you, not for you.

 

[Flash LCD]

A nation which cannot exist upon the free will of its people does not deserve to exist at all.

By this of course, I mean that if this nation cannot maintain its own sanctity through a volunteer military, or via citizens militias, then there truly is no purpose to our existence as a nation. There will always be people ready to fight and die for this country, and much of our existence relies on them. However, if this nation ever has to force people to fight for our existence, the purpose of fighting is hypocritical. Fighting for freedom via slavery?

 

[mLuH]

A nation which cannot exist upon the free will of its people does not deserve to exist at all.

By this of course, I mean that if this nation cannot maintain its own sanctity through a volunteer military, or via citizens militias, then there truly is no purpose to our existence as a nation. There will always be people ready to fight and die for this country, and much of our existence relies on them. However, if this nation ever has to force people to fight for our existence, the purpose of fighting is hypocritical. Fighting for freedom via slavery?

good point.

 

[TonyD]

A nation which cannot exist upon the free will of its people does not deserve to exist at all.

By this of course, I mean that if this nation cannot maintain its own sanctity through a volunteer military, or via citizens militias, then there truly is no purpose to our existence as a nation. There will always be people ready to fight and die for this country, and much of our existence relies on them. However, if this nation ever has to force people to fight for our existence, the purpose of fighting is hypocritical. Fighting for freedom via slavery?

That is kind of what I was saying in a different light and with a little bit of a different meaning. Well said.

 

[Alpha]

A nation which cannot exist upon the free will of its people does not deserve to exist at all.

By this of course, I mean that if this nation cannot maintain its own sanctity through a volunteer military, or via citizens militias, then there truly is no purpose to our existence as a nation. There will always be people ready to fight and die for this country, and much of our existence relies on them. However, if this nation ever has to force people to fight for our existence, the purpose of fighting is hypocritical. Fighting for freedom via slavery?

The voice of reason.

 

[olddfatbulldog]

But you also have to think of it this way:

Say we are desperate for soldiers. We have a small, weak military which will not be able to defend us suffieciently. So, there's a draft. Then the question arises, what's better, less willing draftees or nothing? This debate is pretty pointless because obviously we don't need a draft right now, but if we did, it's better than nothing.

People need to fight for their rights, and when there is not enough to fight, someone has to. So do I think there should be a draft reinstated in the near future? No. Do I think that if we need ALOT more soldiers, a draft is justifiable? Yes.

 

[evolkers2003]

But you also have to think of it this way:

Say we are desperate for soldiers. We have a small, weak military which will not be able to defend us suffieciently. So, there's a draft. Then the question arises, what's better, less willing draftees or nothing? This debate is pretty pointless because obviously we don't need a draft right now, but if we did, it's better than nothing.

People need to fight for their rights, and when there is not enough to fight, someone has to. So do I think there should be a draft reinstated in the near future? No. Do I think that if we need ALOT more soldiers, a draft is justifiable? Yes.

Yeah, i agree. You gotta think if there is a shortage of soldiers, then we need to draft to protect ourselves, and our rights. Alot of people might take it for granted, and with the diversitys in America it might get harder to get people, you know, goths, emo etc. who dont want to fight. We then have to draft there skinny ass's to protect others. I see what flash was saying, but would you rather draft people to save yourself than be taken over and live in fear because the gov' deosnt have a true police system, even though a country powerfull enough to take over the US would have to.

 

[TonyD]

Refer back to what Flash said. If there are not soldiers willing to fight, then there is nothing to fight for and that nation should not exist.

 

[evolkers2003]

Refer back to what Flash said. If there are not soldiers willing to fight, then there is nothing to fight for and that nation should not exist.

But it kinda sucks for the people that do want to fight deosnt it? Oh well, i geuss thats how it always will be.

 

[TonyD]

I don't understand what you mean. Why does it suck for those who do want to fight?

 

[evolkers2003]

I don't understand what you mean. Why does it suck for those who do want to fight?

I mean, if there is people that wanna fight, but they are doomed because the gov wont institute the draft, so that sucks for them, cause there gonna lose their country that they wanna fight for.

 

[TonyD]

I think you're looking at this in a strange way...

If the nation cannot defend itself it should not be a nation. Sending others to die only to make it "fair" for those who are willing is absolute insanity. Not to mention, that war is probably already unwinnable. Not only are these soldiers who are being required to fight less fit for combat than those willing to fight, but their ambitions toward fighting for a cause they do not support is also going to hamper the nation's effort.

Case in point: Vietnam. Nothing more needs to be said than that one word.

 

[p8ntballweird]

I'm actually writing a paper on this subject at this exact moment.
I'm against conscription, because its straight up slavery... it takes away the rights given to us by the 13th amendment, and in some cases the country is actually contradicting itself.For example, the red scare... maybe I'll throw out my paper when I'm done.

quick quote I kind of liked:
"A government that is willing to enslave a portion of its citizens to fight an unjust war can never be trusted to protect the liberties of it's citizens"
-Dr. Ron Paul.

 

[olddfatbulldog]

So let's say that a draft isn't installed, the nation falls apart, and there is no government. But this is what some people want, what about the rest of the people? I mean, does anyone really want to have our country go to the ****ter and end up like Somali. The same thing basically happened there, minus the draft part. They didn't like their government, they rebelled, and now the US comments that their government type is "non-existant".

 

[Number One Andrew]

Sorry Adam, the draft is un-con-sti-tuti-o-nal.