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Discussion Starter #1
I know "movie forum", but go stfu. It's more than Lord of the Rings part II. It has some current issues to discuss.


Just came back from seeing it. My friend and I left the theatre calling "Bull****." MIchael Moore is a manipulative jackass that goes beyond what people think as editing. He slices his footage a apart to make a lie. Not a stretch of what happened, a lie.

For instance: In a scene you see Moore ask a Congressman "Would you like to sign your children up for service in Iraq?" You see a cut in the film and the congressman is walking fastly away. What he convieniently leaves out is the congressman stops, says "I have two sons in Iraq, you idiot."

And the lies about the president's vacation time. It sounds just completeley made up. Unless he includes:

-trips to foreign leaders
-time at camp david (Where every presidents goes)
-WEEKENDS
-time at his ranch which includes visits from world leaders
-Time he WORKS at his ranch (Hint: You don't have to be in DC when you work)


I'm sure there isn't a day that goes by where he talks to his advisors and works on some things.

Imma leave it open for discussion now.
 

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Fair enough. But who do you suppose lies more: Michael Moore, or George Bush?

Maybe he lied a couple times. But what is more substantial- the lies, or the truth? I haven't seen the film personally, but I understand that both are unquestionably present.
 

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Xley said:
I know "movie forum", but go stfu.
O man i dont even feel like reading anything else you wrote because the whole stfu thing was to funny. I am still laughing. rollin:
 

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Shytkicker said:
Fair enough. But who do you suppose lies more: Michael Moore, or George Bush?

Maybe he lied a couple times. But what is more substantial- the lies, or the truth? I haven't seen the film personally, but I understand that both are unquestionably present.
Michael Moore lies more. Literally everything he displays as true is complete and utter lies. At least if you asked George Bush if the sky was blue he would say yeah.....

Am I pro-bush....NO, but you have to recognize communist propoganda when you see it.
 

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ill move it back, but it will only stay in the lounge if you stick to the political issues not that movie itself (i dont know if its possible, which is why i moved it in the first place)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks, NYY.

Let's get started back up....


Moore is deff. more of a liar then Bush. Give me a couple things Bush has just plain lied about.
 

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The first one that comes to mind is Bush telling the nation the the International Atomic Energy Association claimed that Iraq was six months away from developing a nuclear weapon. The IAEA never said anything even remotely similar.

Not to be stifled by the truth, Bush then accounted that Iraq had purchased aluminum tubes suitable for producing fissible material for warheads. The IAEA, again, corrected him that they weren't anything like the aluminum tubes used in Uranium centrifuges.

In 2002, Bush claimed that the latest recession (which started in March of 01) began before he took office. In the same address, he denied that his tax cuts influenced the re-emmergence of the deffecit. Both are inexcusably untrue, at the most obvious levels.

In Febuary 03, Bush lied, saying that a Blue Chip Economic Forcast Magazine article predicted great economic growth, if congress passed his tax cut plan. No such article exists. This is corroborated by the editor, Randell E. Moore.

On April 03, Bush proclaimed that his jobs and growth plan "would reduce tax rates for everyone who pays income tax." Also not true. Many low and middle income families saw no reduced rates because they were excluded from the new Child Care tax expansion.

In May of 03, Bush claimed that the U.S. had "found" the allegid mobile biological weapons labratories (trailers.) They later turned out to be used for inflating, no kidding, hydrogen weather balloons.

Funny thing, this is. Nobody ever died because of Michael Moores lies. I've got a bunch more of them here. The Bush lies are ALL fairly well documented. At least SOME people are paying attention. :)
 

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nobody died because of moore's lies, but he is changing millions of peoples' votes which could be ten times more dangerous
 

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Shyticker...mad props for stepping up. Im totally with you on this...but im not gonna discuss why shrub is a bad president cause all the pro-bush ppl (as movingtarget pointed out) will just yell louder instead of listen.

Another thing...you people are either bush or kerry...ever think to concicder a 3rd party...like libratarian or other? I mean serrously...this country was made so there could be more than just a 2 party system with the 2 far extreams.
 

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Shytkicker said:
The first one that comes to mind is Bush telling the nation the the International Atomic Energy Association claimed that Iraq was six months away from developing a nuclear weapon. The IAEA never said anything even remotely similar.

Not to be stifled by the truth, Bush then accounted that Iraq had purchased aluminum tubes suitable for producing fissible material for warheads. The IAEA, again, corrected him that they weren't anything like the aluminum tubes used in Uranium centrifuges.

In 2002, Bush claimed that the latest recession (which started in March of 01) began before he took office. In the same address, he denied that his tax cuts influenced the re-emmergence of the deffecit. Both are inexcusably untrue, at the most obvious levels.

In Febuary 03, Bush lied, saying that a Blue Chip Economic Forcast Magazine article predicted great economic growth, if congress passed his tax cut plan. No such article exists. This is corroborated by the editor, Randell E. Moore.

On April 03, Bush proclaimed that his jobs and growth plan "would reduce tax rates for everyone who pays income tax." Also not true. Many low and middle income families saw no reduced rates because they were excluded from the new Child Care tax expansion.

In May of 03, Bush claimed that the U.S. had "found" the allegid mobile biological weapons labratories (trailers.) They later turned out to be used for inflating, no kidding, hydrogen weather balloons.

Funny thing, this is. Nobody ever died because of Michael Moores lies. I've got a bunch more of them here. The Bush lies are ALL fairly well documented. At least SOME people are paying attention. :)

Whats your source?
 

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P4IN7 B4LLS said:
most 3rd parties are just as extreme tho... look at nader
true, but also...some arent...look at Badnerick

Go to http://www.lp.org/issues/ alot of them are very good stand points, at least in my opinion. Some issues people dislike because they want to shelter their kids and such, but yea, go there and such.
 

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NYY said:
nobody died because of moore's lies, but he is changing millions of peoples' votes which could be ten times more dangerous
Dangerous? People have to be responsible for their own votes. It's no more and no less dangerous than the Bush propeganda, which is loaded with outright lies about Kerry. I have a hard time harboring amnesty for Bush when he, himself, is a liar.

Stopie said:
Shyticker...mad props for stepping up. Im totally with you on this...but im not gonna discuss why shrub is a bad president cause all the pro-bush ppl (as movingtarget pointed out) will just yell louder instead of listen.

Another thing...you people are either bush or kerry...ever think to concicder a 3rd party...like libratarian or other? I mean serrously...this country was made so there could be more than just a 2 party system with the 2 far extreams.
Fair assessment, but have you considered that many people are not "pro" one candidate, as much as "anti" the other? Given that premise, unless a third party candidate stood a chance of winning, it is harmful in the short term to vote for them. Personally, I like Nader- but I don't think he has the political portfolio for president. My suggestion to Kerry would be to offer Nader a seat as the Secretary of Commerce, should he win.

Warpstoner said:
Whats your source?
Sources. Plural. And that question is a waste of my time, unless you're actually saying that you will be convinced that Bush is a liar when I cite reliable sources. Of course, if that IS what you're saying, put your money where your mouth is and speak up. I'll spend ten minutes finding them again.

But I don't think my sources are really the issue here. Are they? Especially because the most inexperienced google searcher could find any one of them.
 

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Shytkicker said:
Fair enough. But who do you suppose lies more: Michael Moore, or George Bush?

Maybe he lied a couple times. But what is more substantial- the lies, or the truth? I haven't seen the film personally, but I understand that both are unquestionably present.

Look. George W. Bush is a politician. Politicians lie. It is in their very nature. I doubt there is a leader in this nations history that didnt' lie to at least some extent. It is part of being human and I don't think there is a person on this board that hasn't lied or stretched the truth at some point for their own personal gain.

That having been said, I will be voting for George W. Bush. The reason: even if he lies, I at least know what he is going to lie to me about. Some things I know he is going to lie about some but there are other things he is going to be honest about. John Kerry on the other hand, a man who has taken both sides on just about every issue: how the heck can I trust a guy like that?

G.W. at least has some principle. There are issues where he doesn't stick his finger in the air to see which way the wind is blowing. G.W. isn't perfect, but before the Democrats expect me to vote for them they are well advised to run a candidate better than what we have. If they had run someone like Zell Miller of Georgia or John Breaux from Louisiana - they would have had a much better chance. Kerry is too left of center; even if he does win, I doubt he will pull off a twofer. He is like Clinton but without the charisma.
 

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All politicians lie, so it's okay when they do? Sorry, man. I don't buy that. Some lies are less dangerous than others. "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Monika Lewinski." Fairly harmless, and of no real consequence. Making up pretend facts as a basis for a war which half or more of the Iraqi population still resents, only to seed further terrorism, bolster Al Qaidas numbers, and send our country into a record defficit, the likes of which it took a political genius to get us out of before...

I dare you to call it a "white lie." And as long as we're talking common morals here, it's a lie that Bush furthermore refuses to acknowledge, even though EVERYBODY KNOWS IT. Even yourself, admittedly.

Do you really want a president who is living in a dream world?
 
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