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Discussion Starter #3
what would i have to do to make it work with the HPA tank?
 

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KRAKEN! KRAKEN! KRAKEN!!!
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There's no reason it would have trouble with HPA. CO2 tanks put out ~800 psi (this number greatly depends on the tank temperature.) HP output HPA tanks run at 850 psi.

As long as you properly maintain your gun you won't have any issues.
 

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CO2 tanks put out about 1200psi when full

HPA tanks, if mid or low pressure, and even high pressure output with bad recharge rates, can produce cocking issues with Spyders
 

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CO2 tanks only put out 1200psi when they are either overfilled or hot... Or both even.
 

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I'm not diggin the attitude. Especially not from a pbf staff member.

Here are some numbers for you to chew on.
CO2 pressure @ 100% fill relative to temperature:
60°F 750PSI
70°F 850PSI
80°F 965PSI
90°F 1200PSI
100°F 1400PSI

Every one who has used CO2 knows every time you shoot, the bottle gets a little colder. A string of about 20 shots will drop the tank temperature to 60°F yielding a 750psi pressure.
It's not too uncommon for a trigger happy player to get a tank below freezing which puts the tank pressure in the ballpark of 500PSI.
Now mind you, these numbers are all at 100% of the rated fill.

So please, prove me wrong. Prove that a stock, out of the box Spyder can't run on an HPA tank so I can go tell my boss our rental guns defy all logic and physics.
 

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1. I'm not a staff member?

2. Never said that they couldn't, just said that they MAY have trouble

3. I have gotten pressure testers and have gauges on some of my ASA's, and they all say over 1000psi with a full CO2 tank at room temp

4. Tippmann's and Spyder's recock at around 700-800+ psi, so depending on the output pressure of your tank and its recharge rate, yes, you can have problems

5. Since Spyder's are low end, they keep costs down by making the gun quick and easy to make, leading in restrictive air flow paths and simple designs that aren't the most efficient, thus the High Efficiency/Low Pressure mods help a ton in lowering the recocking pressure, boosting efficiency, and smoothing out the shot

While I can't give much physical proof about the whole CO2 pressure per temp, etc., quite frankly, I don't see anything besides a bunch of numbers with no backing for your numbers.
Care to show proof of those pressures per temp?
 

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#1: In my initial hurry, I misread your user title. At first glance it appeared to be "master moderator". My mistake.

#2: You did in fact say "may have a litle trouble" and I'm saying they will have NO trouble.

#3: If you were indeed an "airsmith" as your profile claims you are, you would know that a gauge on an ASA on your tank is not reliable.

#4: 650PSI+ is a much more realistic figure.

#5: Actually they keep costs down by having loose machining tolerances and using less expensive materials. After a certain point, lowering the operating pressure of a gun causes it to be less efficient. A larger volume of air is needed to propel the ball to velocity in a LP setup.

Here's your proof:
http://www.doomlabs.com/science/CO2_Science.html
CO2 Dynamics
Graph:
http://www.doomlabs.com/science/co2pv.gif

That's the difference between us, I CAN back up my claims. It would have been foolish of me to challenge your statements without being able to support my own.
 

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*accidental duplicate of above message*
 

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3. Indeed, that's why I use digital pressure testers as well

5. Indeed, but again, they aren't going to make a Spyder as perfect as they can make one if they don't need to. By modeint it out to HE/LP, you can increase airfow enough to either let you drop your pressure to get back under 300fps or backout your velocity adjuster to get within limits

After reading he links you posted, and taking the ambient temp of my house, it is 83 degrees, so I guess that 1000+ psi here is wihin the norms
All the other times I have taken tank readings were in summer, when it was really hot.
 

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So are we in agreement that a STBB will have no issues running HPA?
 

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Nope
:)

I've seen some older Spyders that have trouble, and some new ones that still have trouble

Maybe it's just improper care or something, or maybe the expansion rates of CO2 and HPA or some crazy thing, but I've seen Spyders that will just burp on HPA
Granted, all my Spyders run HPA like champs (though they have all been modded to HE or LP)
 

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Alright, that's fine.

Although I would like you to jump on the nation and discuss this further, your opinion may be swayed.
 

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Eh, the more I think about it, the more I think that it's a maintenance thing and people trying to shoot their spyders is bad condition

Maybe spyders can use co2 more readily, and can still work in spyders in low repair better than hpa?
 
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