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Imperator
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Discussion Starter #1
A lady wrote this letter in the Editorials.

Her point:

"Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration.

Certain people are angry that the US might protect its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once here, to stay indefinitely.

Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests.

Let's say I break into your house.

Let's say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave.

But I say, "I've made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors. I've done all the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest (except for when I broke into your house).

According to the protesters:

You are Required to let me stay in your house

You are Required to add me to your family's insurance plan

You are Required to Educate my kids

You are Required to Provide other benefits to me
& to my family (my husband will do all of your yard work because he is also hard-working and honest, except for that breaking in part).

If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house
carrying signs that proclaim my RIGHT to be there.

It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working and honest, person, except for well, you know, I did break into your house.

And what a deal it is for me!!!

I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold, uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted behavior."

Your view?
 

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I was saving that bacon
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7,177 Posts
I heard that a while back, its a good point. But yea, such a bad situation.
 

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Registered
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182 Posts
He says that now, but he'll be changing his tune when Americans start illegally immigrating into Canada.


:hug:
down with immigration...lets just assimilate Canada and take the syrup and run!:sly: like a :ninja:
 

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Its never lupus
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9,169 Posts
He says that now, but he'll be changing his tune when Americans start illegally immigrating into Canada.


:hug:
We could call it Eastern Alaska!

I think immigrants have a lot to offer, but being illegal means that they're unregulated. I don't approve of people hopping the border, breaking the law, and then coming in without auto insurance and not paying taxes.

The minimum wage should be raised (because they'd mostly be unskilled laborers), we should let more immigrants in (who can communicate effectively and don't have a criminal background), and give them a good education so they can effect our nation positively in the future.
 
D

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Guest
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care to elaborate?
Because she's comparing it to something on so personal a scale,ie: in your own house, that the similarities are vague at best and the reader has no choice but to agree and would seem idiotic if they didn't.

I think the correct term would have been Faulty Analogy, but Fallacy of Comparison means the same thing I think.

Basically it occurs when an analogy fails to "adequately perform its explanatory work or to support a conclusion because the subject and the analogue are too different to be successfully compared." ( Trudy Govier,A Practical Study of Argument)

The fallacy known as "Begging the Question" is also present, "this fallacy occurs when the conclusion of an argument is either stated or presupposed in the arguments premises."

However, say we stick with her analogy. If you have a very large house and you are only using a fraction of the rooms and are wealthy enough to support a family that would otherwise be left in poverty, wouldn't you invite them in?

Or do you grant freedom to only those who pay for it?
 

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Administrator
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so you don't think they shoudl pay taxes and have citizenship yet be able to get the benefits of them?

I bet I can't walk into a Canadian doctors office and get free healthcare. (or can I? of so, then I'll start making long doctors trips)
 

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don't drop the soap
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No I think D is more trying to say that this example doesn't really work that well. Comparing your house to a country really isn't the same thing at all, and it just tries to play on your emotions to sway your decision.
 

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Administrator
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No I think D is more trying to say that this example doesn't really work that well. Comparing your house to a country really isn't the same thing at all, and it just tries to play on your emotions to sway your decision.
yeah i understood what he was saying. but at the end it sounds like he's trying to make a case for the illegal immirgants.
 
D

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so you don't think they shoudl pay taxes and have citizenship yet be able to get the benefits of them?

I bet I can't walk into a Canadian doctors office and get free healthcare. (or can I? of so, then I'll start making long doctors trips)
You're right, you wouldn't be able to receive free health care.

If they don't have citizenship then they can't reap the benefits of what taxes provide anyways. They can't get a driver's license, free health care, and can't vote. And they are still paying taxes on all goods and services they might purchase.

I'm speaking from the perspective of Canada.
 
D

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if i buy something in Mexico, I pay Mexican taxes on it.. Is that unfair as well?
You misunderstood. I'm saying that even though they aren't registered and aren't paying income tax or property tax, they are still paying sales tax. I'm not at all saying that's unfair, I'm pointing out that they are still in fact contributing some what to the tax system.
 

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Moderator
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You guys ever read the book Starship Troopers?

Heinlein talks about his opinions on citizenship throughout the book. For example, in order to vote or get anything from the government, you had to be a veteran.

The major theme was that people who don't have the zeal to risk their lives for the system should not be able to reap teh benefits.
 
D

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The major theme was that people who don't have the zeal to risk their lives for the system should not be able to reap teh benefits.
So the government would be a militaristic regime.. sounds a little too orwellian for me.
 
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