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The following is an attempt to stimulate informed discussion on a sensitive issue. views should be expressed in a very mature matter and content should be limited to that of pg 13 and should be very concious of other peoples beliefs. You dick around in my thread and you will be banned for who ever long I see fit.
Also remember that there is no flaming of other religions.

ONWARD

Its possible that the most importnant world conflict in the news is between the jews of israel and the arab palistinians occupying there territories of west bank and gaza. Both sides claim this area as there 'home land' and isreal was granted it as a state of there own by people who imo did not have possesition of the land in the first place.

true back in the times directly after christs death the jews in the area of jerusalem were spread out and formed a 'jewish diaspora' but does that mean they should have been granted the land that has been occupied and the home of arabs and the romans for 2000 years before them. Do they deserve this area and without U.S. support would the isrealis still be holding there ground?

Your ideas. should the arabs be granted there own homeland?

discuss.
 

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It will be interesting to see what transpires now with the death of Yassar Arafat. It was only the iron rule of Arafat that kept the factions of the Palestinian Arabs from 1)tearing each other apart, and 2) trying to tear the Isreali's apart. The succession as of now is somewhat stable, but it will prove interesting when the elections are held. This could very much be a time where a peace of sorts could be negotiatied or it could be a time where the region flares up in a full scale war.
 

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Im guessing not so much full scale war as a loosely organized fight. I think the isrealis are a very focused force they have full armor and can wreake(sp?) havoc where I can definately see the palistinians having a heart led fight but im afraid it won't take them very far without insurgent/terrorist help. even then the isreali force will take some bad hits but I think they will hold strong. I still would be interested in seeing a united arab state. of all middle eastern countries togeather..I know there was a push for it for a while with syria and egypt but with asses like good ole saddam leading these countries they can't seem to work togeather. Its actually good and bad. If they were unified oil could be dangerous..well more so than now. one unified state with all of the controll on oil exports...pretty much turning opec into the government of the entire region. BUT if they were to join as one maybe the terrorism could slowly die out. then again it may just cause a larger region with more terrorist backing to attack us...oh well I am also interested to sit back and watch on what happens. I fear that as soon as when I am serving there will be an engagement large enough to require us backing.
 

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OK, let me start by saying that I am from the area. So I personally know how the war is and what it looks like. (Lebanon, which is close enough, even though I've been IN the warzones) I think that the arab muslims should have their land back. We lost it because in World war one the British came in and divided us up. Then gave the land to the Jewish whom took the land as their own and renamed it from Palestine to Israel. It is unfair that we cannot have the land that was unjustfully taken from us in the first place.

So in my mind, we should have our land back.

Also, as for the subject of the suicide bombings. Those people are the ones who are so desperate as to that they blow themselves up. THIS is not the way that muslims fight. So please don't think that we're all about blowing ourselves up. In our religion it is sinful. So don't stereotype us like all the media has done in the past years.

I hope that we can elect a leader that has a good mind on how to command his people. As in my eyes and the eyes of my fellow muslims, Arafat did not do much to help us.


EDIT- This is just the look of one arab muslim onto the conversation. I just hope that maybe I can open the eyes of some. Thank you for hearing me out.

-Fast
 

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Fastecho419 said:
I think that the arab muslims should have their land back. We lost it because in World war one the British came in and divided us up. Then gave the land to the Jewish whom took the land as their own and renamed it from Palestine to Israel.
This is not what happened. I don't mean to give a history lesson, but its easy enough to look up yourself.

The British did NOT come in and "steal" Isreal from Palestine.

In fact, Jews have always been there AND THE UNITED NATIONS decided to split ISREAL IN HALF, and have an ISRAELI ZONE and the ARAB ZONE in the 1940s.

Before this split, THERE WAS NO SUCH THING AS PALESTINIANS. They DID NOT EXIST as a seperate group. The arabs in the region were either Saudi, Eqyptian, or Jordanian. It was the UNITED NATIONS who created "Palestinians".

Isreal was happy to live with the split, but the ARAB WORLD was not, and the ARAB world attacked Isreal, and lost. The irony is that these countries are willing to ATTACK Isreal, but have REFUSED to take Arab refugees living in Isreali. (The only exception is Jordan, which was originally CREATED as a home for Isreali Arabs, but that didn't work out either).

The situation has not changed today. The Israeli Arabs (aka Palestinians) have ALWAYS been offered there own country. Instead, they choose to TARGET WOMEN AND CHILDREN, and kill them. Isreali Jews do not.

Nick
 

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Which HP, was why I said that we should get a new leader. As Arafat was not doing well. Not all of us target the Women and children. Only the terrorists and those whom are out of their minds.

The majority is just fighting and battling it out. But yet the terrorists feel it nessessary to target children and school's and blow themselves up there. I don't know what goes through their minds, but that's what they find as the way to do it. Also, your right about the Palestinians themselves. But any which way, the Brits came in and invaded the area and split it up. It's still unfair, how can you just TAKE the land of a country and give it to others?

I don't know why the rest of the arab world doesn't just smother the small country. Which is another conversation that I don't want to get into. Because it just gets me very irritated with Saudi Arabia, Iraq and other countries as well.

Also, if America hadn't came into that area and fought, then we would've won. But Israel had the strongest country in the world on their side, we had Lebanon, Egypt and Syria. Three countries!

-Fast
 

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Yes.... But Isreal did attack one of our ships in the 1960s "by accident".

I don't forsee peace in any time soon. In fact, I see some major battle with one side being wiped out. The sad fact is that the region is SO SMALL, that it would only take a small amount of WMDs to really do some incredible damage... and I think BOTH sides are willing to use them "if it goes that far".

Arafat was a war-monger, so, hopefully, things could get better with the right people. But not likely.

Nick
 

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It will be interesting as the PLO has named Mahmoud Abbas as thier new leader (at least until elections are to be held). He has served as the 'Prime minister' of the PLO for years. However, the party leadership of the PLO has gone to Farouk Kaddoumi, who is much more the Arafat clone then party hack.

In a recent meeting of all PLO factions (Including Hamas and Islamic Jihad) Abbas didn't even try to assert power, rather he asked them to participate in the elections.

I think you will see two or three factions of palestinians vieing for controll of the PLO, the moderates led by Abbas, the Loyalists let by Kaddoumi, and then a militant faction with Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Throw Isreal into the mix and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see if they will attempt to break the factions even more by trying to take advantage of the dissarray that Arafat left behind.

This is much like the sucessions of the old european monarchy's where succession was determined by bribes, murder, and power.

I agree with Nick though, that one side will look to wipe the other out. Isreal would think that Britan and the US would back them, while Jordan, Egypt and Syria would help out the Palestinians. However, because of the US involvement in Afganistan and Iraq, Isreal would really have to think twice about starting anything because the US military is getting stretched pretty thin. Not that they wouldn't go it alone, they have done that before.

Like I said, the next 4-6 months will be very interesting to watch. Who will come out on top? My bet is that at least 2 of the leaders of the various factions end up wearing concrete overshoes in the next few months, and that some unknown will come in and steal the presidency of the PLO. I fear that it will be a militant leader who promises to "wipe the Zoinists off the face of the earth."

But I could be wrong... It has happened more times then I care to count.
 

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HP_lovecraft said:
Arafat was a war-monger.

Yes he was a war monger. This war would've been less as dangrous and bloody if we had just had a better leader. That's the problem with these arab country's such as Afganistan,Iraq and Palistine. They all had bad leaders. Either they came in by force or they came in by voting them in. It's sad that so many have to die over the stupidity of some of those who cannot see straight.

I mean, I understand the land needs to be taken back. But why suicide bombers? Why kill innocent people? That is the logic of Arafat that I didn't understand at all.
 
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