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Discussion Starter #1
http://www.wired.com/news/wireservice/0,70702-0.html?tw=wn_index_4

Why is biodiesel great? Produces less emissions than an average gas car and gets an average of 30% better mileage, plus it reduces our dependence on foreign oil and puts more money back in American farmers hands, thereby keeping the money in America. thumup:
 

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you forgot the biggest :tup for bio. ITS CHEAP!!!1

thats pretty sweet that they're advancing the biodiesel production tech. I am a student at appalachian state university and we have recently built a fairly large biodiesel production setup that will fuel part of the schools fleet of vehicles. It would serve all but most of thier vehicles are gas...
 

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it doesnt really matter, i hate to be the downer, but no matter what in the end we will be paying alot for gas. If everybody switches to bio-desiel, then used cooking oil's value will go through the roof. And most likely a company like Haliburton will find a way to make money off of it. Basically, the oil industry basically controls our nation, its where all the money is, and money = power, someones gotta pay for the presidents campaign, and that someone will get a back scratching.

Basically, no matter what, our main source for fuel in transportation will be a corrupted business. The price of used cooking oil would go up to be the same as gasoline.

The u.s. government wont go out that easy
 

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PAT McCORMICK said:
it doesnt really matter, i hate to be the downer, but no matter what in the end we will be paying alot for gas. If everybody switches to bio-desiel, then used cooking oil's value will go through the roof. And most likely a company like Haliburton will find a way to make money off of it. Basically, the oil industry basically controls our nation, its where all the money is, and money = power, someones gotta pay for the presidents campaign, and that someone will get a back scratching.

Basically, no matter what, our main source for fuel in transportation will be a corrupted business. The price of used cooking oil would go up to be the same as gasoline.

The u.s. government wont go out that easy
 

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lbreevesii said:
you forgot the biggest :tup for bio. ITS CHEAP!!!1

That corn **** costs 2.44$ here. That was what I could buy regular gas for a while back ago. It used to be like 1.80$ though.
 

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Pr0ph3t said:


He named all the wrong reasons and his comment was essentially baseless, but in the end is right. We couldn't live without oil companies....
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Sure, we may not alleviate fuel costs completely, but we could reduce our dependence on fossil fuels and foreign oil, which would bring gas prices down. If 30% of Americans used diesel cars and ran regular diesel (not even biodiesel, which would do more) it would save millions of barrels of oil a day, which would save millions of dollars a day, enough to put a noticeable dent in fuel costs. This is due to diesel being more efficient than gas. That isn't that difficult a thing to do, just get more people to buy a diesel car/truck instead of a gasser next time around, and there are quite a few other simple things like that we could do that would put a dent in fuel costs. Sure, it probably wouldn't bring it back to $1 or less, but it would keep it from hitting $3.
 

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Except that currently it's expensive and not very environmentally friendly to make. Why just look towards hydrogen when we have the technology to improve ourselves now?
 

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your idealogical look at the world is bull****.


Reality check, Fusion is extremely hard to do and its just starting to be tested with mixed results.
 

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Mixed results? Hydrogen fueled cars are already a reality. The step car companies are tackling now is how to bring the cost down to make it production worthy.
 

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seriously, no matter what you use for fuel, whoever is at the top of that industry, will find out how much you are willing to pay for it, and thats what they're gonna charge you. And if the government aint gonna do it that way, you'll see a bio-desiel tax or something like that. Thats just the way it works.
 

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CoWcH said:
Mixed results? Hydrogen fueled cars are already a reality. The step car companies are tackling now is how to bring the cost down to make it production worthy.
I know this. Even the cars themselves are being way overblown, there are HUGE technical problems yet, I can't even begin to explain

. Even with nuclear energy its iffy on how we will produce the hydrogen, so its pretty moot point where the cars are if we can't run them with the intended fuel.
 

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There are quite a few problems with hydrogen that will keep it out of the hands of most consumers for years:

1. The cost of the technology would add at least $100,000 to the price of the car currently.

2. Hydrogen itself isn't currently much more cost effective than gas to produce. It costs at least $2.60 to produce a kilogram of hydrogen in the US, which contains the same amount of energy as a gallon of gasoline.

3. Hydrogen production through electrolysis currently creates similar pollution levels to gas cars and requires a lot of electricity. So even though the cars aren’t making the pollution the hydrogen production companies are.

4. Hydrogen doesn't have the range of a gas car and especially not that of a diesel car. BMW's hydrogen version of their 760i engine gets 260 miles to a tank, compared to the gas versions 500.

5. A lack of hydrogen filling stations.

6. Hydrogen needs to be kept in liquid state at around -423*F, if the vehicle isn't started for a few days the hydrogen will start to boil off and would be released through a valve. Gas and diesel on the other hand can last for at least 6 months in the tank of a car untreated.

7. Liquid hydrogen isn't as easily transportable as gas and diesel. Instead of buying a $3 gas can to transport it you would need to buy a $100+ hydrogen tank and filling setup that would need to be pressure tested every few years. I'm sure most tow companies would rather you pay for them to tow you to a fill station if you ran out of fuel instead of them paying to keep tanks around.

All in all, hydrogen sounds great, but the technology won't be here until at least 2010, and even then it will be much more expensive than gas, diesel, and even natural gas.
 

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PAT McCORMICK said:
And if the government aint gonna do it that way, you'll see a bio-desiel tax or something like that. Thats just the way it works.
That's why the goverment wants car companies to move towards E85 as a farm grown fuel instead of biodiesel. They can tax E85 because it is illegal for people to produce E85 on their own, biodiesel on the other hand is currently untaxable because anyone can make it. It would be pretty difficult to regulate also.
 

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isnt there some kind of tax, that is put on all fuel that powers a registered motor viechle?

ok, now common heating oil and diesel gas are VERY similar. Alot of truckers found if you just add alil top lube you can put heating oil in a diesel engine. They do this becasue even though a basically identical product, diesel has some sort of a highway tax on it, and heating oil does not. Therefore they used to save alot of money by goin with heating oil, although it sounds very illegal
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Home heating oil, or fuel oil, is just dyed diesel of grade #1 and/or #2 (they are mixed usually because #1 is better in cold temperatures, while #2 provides more lubrication and power). The stuff you would buy at the pump is usually more #1 diesel (and is undyed). Both of these diesels have a dyed and undyed version. Diesel that is dyed red is because it is untaxed and the government doesn't want you using it in your road going vehicle, (the dye lets police know if you are using taxed or untaxed, if you are caught using untaxed on the road it's a $2000+ fine). Here is some basic info on diesels:
http://www.bankspower.com/tech_aboutdieselfuel.cfm

Right now the difference in tax is around $1 per gallon, untaxed red dyed diesel is around $2 a gallon while taxed undyed diesel is around $3.


Now, biodiesel doesn't fall under those taxes. It's considered an alternative fuel, which is legal and for the most part untaxable or has a lower tax. It's like if you invented a solar powered car the goverment couldn't tax you for your use of the sun, they both fall under the same loophole. Plus, it would be extremely hard to enforce as both biodiesel and "on-road" are undyed, and biodiesel can be legally made by anyone, so it is very hard to tell the difference. Now, if you bought biodiesel from a station it would have some type of tax, but that falls under a different set of rules. Their tax is often more than regular diesel, however, the government gives them a rebate to bring the cost to at or below regular "on-road" diesel costs. If you make it yourself there is no tax and it is 100% legal.
 
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