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32%, say the United States can't win the war in Iraq. Another 21% say the United States could win the war, but they don't think it will. Just 43% predict a victory.

Also did you notice 51%, say the Bush administration deliberately misled the public about whether Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

As well as 58%-37%, a majority say the United States won't be able to establish a stable democratic government in Iraq, similar to the results when the question was asked in April 2004.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-07-26-poll-us-not-winning-iraq_x.htm?csp=24&RM_Exclude=Juno

What do y'all think?
 

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i don't think they misled us about the weapons of mass destruction, the troops need our support everyone is blaming them for what is going on over there but they are just taking orders. i was at the airport like 3 years ago when a squad of about 30 troops came home from duty and there was a huge crowd of people to greet them, but then like 2 months ago i saw another and no one was there except for this one guy and he was there bc his son was in the squad. it sucks that no one supports them. I think we will win the war but it will take forever and i am sketchy about the democracy in iraq, its a good thing but i don't know if it will work. The fight against terrorism is a long and tough fight but in the end it will be worth it
 

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liberals. one more way to bash bush. democrats better start establishing something on their own. they wont get into office by bashing the former president. <--randomness

war will be won. where superior compared to their militia. if we lose to a bunch of people with underwear on their head where pretty pathetic. i do believe in the war on iraq but we should seriously pull out..


this thread better not turn into an argument. im sick and tired of discussing politics
 

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burningcow422 said:
liberals. one more way to bash bush. democrats better start establishing something on their own. they wont get into office by bashing the former president. <--randomness

war will be won. where superior compared to their militia. if we lose to a bunch of people with underwear on their head where pretty pathetic. i do believe in the war on iraq but we should seriously pull out..


this thread better not turn into an argument. im sick and tired of discussing politics
Wow...

I'm not even gonna respond to your first comment.

As for your second: We aren't fighting thier militia anymore, we aren't fighting any real organizing force... that was the royal guard, and we completely demolished them, because you're right, we are superior, and we will beat any force in the world in open battle. Too bad this isn't open battle... The closest this ever comes to a real firefight is when they try and ambush us, but they've toned that down too because they lose at that too. All they do know is set up boobie traps... there is no real fighting anymore, our soldiers are just wandering around over there hoping not to be hit by a sniper or blown up by a roadside bomb.
 

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burningcow422 said:
liberals. one more way to bash bush. democrats better start establishing something on their own. they wont get into office by bashing the former president. <--randomness

war will be won. where superior compared to their militia. if we lose to a bunch of people with underwear on their head where pretty pathetic. i do believe in the war on iraq but we should seriously pull out..


this thread better not turn into an argument. im sick and tired of discussing politics
Nobody forces you to talk about it...if you are sick about discussing politics...don't come to this thread. Simple as that...

I hate Bush and I am against the war. We didn't find any WMD's, we found Husein, so why are we still over there? Iraq isn't where the major terrorist organizations are located anymore. They all went to different countries because we are in Iraq. If we were going to different countries to try to find a lot of the leaders in terror, I would understand...but there are none in Iraq anymore.

Bush had that stupid mission acomplished banner on one of the ships (forget which one)...if that was true, we shouldn't have troops over there and we shouldn't be sending more troops over.

So far, I have had a couple friends go over to Iraq. 1 of them was killed and 1 was shot in the stomach, 2 more haven't gotten injured or anything, but they aren't located where the hot spots are. All 4 of them were sent over after the stupid mission accomplished banner thing.

Don't get me wrong...i support the troops and have HUGE respect for them...I just don't support the war.
 

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u don't inlist for fun, u inlist to get the experience of serving your country and giving back what the US has given u. The experience to help people.

The terrorists are pansies and they just sit and hide until there carbomb is built so they can cowardly blow something/someone up.

Everyday on the news u see something about a carbomb exploding or some **** like that. But they don't show u all the children now being able to go to school, or families that are now able to eat w/o having to spend an arm and a leg for a loaf of bread. Thats why no one believes in this war, its bc of the god**** media. **** THEM !!!!!! if u were over there fighting u would feel complete, like u have acually done something important w/ your life
 

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It just makes me laugh at all these polls... you see all these people Flamming Bush for everything hes done.. yet he was elected again.


and dont get me wrong im a Democrat, but it just pisses me off at how many people Democrats and Republicans say about Bush, how he misled us with the weapons of mass destruction, and how they're fed up with all his ****, yet they Elected him for another 4 years.

AND burningcow we dont have to establish anything on our own with all the **** the republicans have pulled the last 5 years
 

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I'mgoing to first off say this to all you dems and republicans:

You are ruining America and the voting system. Political parties WILL be the demise of this nation. Be origonal and unaffiliate yourself. Believe in everything YOU think is right, not what your party says.

The media is largly at fault. You hear about the carbombs and the attacks.

You don't hear about how attacks on one military base have gone from 4-5 a day to 1-2 a WEEK.

You don't hear ANYTHING about the ****ing WAR we are fighting in the philipines. Yes, we are fighting a legit ****ign war on terror over there.

You don't hear anythign about how for the first time in years, Iraqis have running water, schools, are able to have simple liberties like cell phones and have brand name clothes.


Yet bush is bad and wrong.

They try to make it look like Iraq never had WMD's. We ****ing gave them to him 20 years ago.

SAddam Hussein used weapons of mass destruction, meaning chemical gases that make your ****ing lungs burst and your skin blister.

And the war is wrong?

People are dragged from their homes, their families shot, and they are hung in a basement, bloody and beaten.

And the war is unjustified?

Most of the terrorists in the area have flocked into Iraq.

And we're fighting for no reason?

Come on now.
 

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You know why we're gonna win the war? Boys like Bubbasr are still and will always be here. And as long as theres guys like them, theres no need to worry.

Worry about your ballot, thats all.
 

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got this from a site


-this is how I view us on a global scale

there's a bully
and he keeps beating on a little kid
and then someone finally gets involved
and ****s up the bully
and helps out the little kid
we're the bully ****er-upper

-people say "ITS NOT OUR PROBLEM"

-yea I'm sure if they were living in oh sayy Iraq
and sad dam was killing off 300,000+ people for the hell of it
you'd want someone to step in and help out

-I'm sure they'd want someone to step into Afghanistan
and take out the taliban whose limiting the rights of women not letting them do anything

-china hounds Taiwan constantly
whose navy u think sits in the harbors of Taiwan? American

-who u think protects Japan and Australia? we do

-who gives food out to starving countries llike Ethiopia? we do

-we give Ecuador money because their econommy was failing

-we have troops located at the 38th paralleel to protect South Korea

-Bush gave $15 million dollars towards Tsunnami AID, not including donations from citizens.


- Iraq

-they say how were are in Iraq for oil.......if that were true prices would've dropped to sub 2dollars, and its only getting higher

-we went there searching for weapons of masss destruction that weren't there, gee I don't know, I'd think it'd be very suspicious if he wasn't letting our inspectors go there and look around


-Cuba

-cuba we **** with because they came close to starting WW3 by pointing nuclear weapons at us

-sorry that the Monroe doctrine stated thatt we'd protect everything in north and south America







http://www.veteranscava.org/photos_that_will_never_make_the.htm
 

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i know its been said a million times, but from the looks of the war i'll say it will end up just like vietnam. we'll be in there for a few more years probably, but then pull out because its just not worth it... helping iraq was kind of random anyway. iraq wasn't in 'shambles' as it was made out to be. there are countries that suffer from far worse. almost every african country has condition alot worse than iraq. at least iraq was a stable coutnry, there are african nations that practically have no government.

but didn't we technically win anyway? i mean seriously, we got rid of the dictatorship, the new government is currently being established, and i think soon things will shape up. but i also think the violence will get worse. the peace wont last that long, once we're done with helping iraq, the violence will just start back up again, get worse, and every middle eastern nation will be even more against american influence.
 

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The reason people think we are losing the war and all that such crap is becuase basically all of the damn news stations are liberals, who hate bush and will do anything to get something bad on him.

As alpha said(and I dont feel like restating), we are making progress. I know Bush aint the best president ever, but dont ***** about him then re-elect him. And what most people dont realize is that the president doesnt hold all that much power. Congress does. Can the President veto congress, yes, but they can override that veto. Yes, he can send in the marines, but thats basically it.

And just so you know, it isnt the president's fault that the economy isnt doing good.

And also as Alpha said, parties WILL be the demise of our political system. My father is a republican, but only becuase of gun laws. He doesnt vote straight republican. I hate the people who vote for someone just becuase they are the same party. It is simply stupid to do so. You should vote for who stands for the things you agree with most, not who your party tells you to.

[/rant]

CC

EDIT: Iraq was stable? What are you talking about. Half the people in the country dont have water, half the kids didnt go to school, they dont have electricity, thousands were killed on Husseins whim, and unless you were in the Baas(sp?) party, life basically sucked. You call that stable?

Directed to the poster above me.
 

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Very good post sumsim. Those kinds of pictures and of course the ideologies that they stand for encourage me to enlist when I become older.
 

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RightTurns.com - Columnists
ARTHUR BRUZZONE
Iraq is Not Vietnam--
Terrorists are Not Guerillas



Swim like a fish in water. So taught Mao Tse-tung, the Chinese military strategist and political tyrant. His advice was to guerrilla fighters. The Viet Cong followed Mao's advice. So did America's Revolutionary War cadres.

On the other hand, Al Qaeda, and other Islamic terrorists, are like scorpions in the desert. They are in the open, detached from the people, vulnerable, and impatient. For that reason, they will fail.

Iraq is not Vietnam. Supporters of John Kerry and many in the media don't believe that. Both are having delusional flashbacks from the sixties-- like a 'bad drug trip', and can't see the differences.

Contrast guerrillas and terrorists and you see why one is doomed to failure. Guerrilla fighters work and live in the village by day, attack at night. They attack clearly vulnerable military targets, then disappear into the bush. They issue no press release, no cameras capture the event.

Terrorist instead prefers civilian targets. They thrive on media events, the bloodier, the better. They glorify the horror, which they generate. They hide among the people out of necessity, not empathy.

By attacking military targets, guerillas endear themselves among their people, and do not alienate the public of their enemy. Terrorists, on the other handby attacking the enemy's civilans, alienate sympathizers among the enemy. They often alienate many among their own people, who are embarrassed or abhor civilian massacres.

The guerilla leadership is undisclosed and hidden, making it difficult to destroy.

Terrorist leaders are visible and boisterous, leaving taped and video messages, often giving defiant speeches in public. They leave themselves open to intense search and destroy missions, like the successful assassination of by Israeli forces of Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi.

Guerilla movements have powerful ideological leaders The Viet Cong received inspiration by the writings of their leader, Ho Chi Minh. a a ruthless but inspiring leader. Islamic terrorist cells have cunning operational leaders, like Bin Laden. They draw from the Koran for inspiration, but generate no great theoretical military leader. The Koran is direct and unequivocal; martyrdom and suicide encouraged. Guerrilla leaders stress patience and long term results requiring decades if necessary. They refrain from suicide missions.

A successful guerrilla movement attacks a despotic governing body that tortures and plunders for many years.

Islamic terrorists come from countries which are often led by despots. Saddam Hussein was a sadist and murderer. He himself used terror to maintain power. His downfall, the U.S. operation to decapitate his regime, resounds with a majority of Iraqis. (No one, not even Al Qaeda and the Democrats would like to see his return to power.)

Of the above mentioned differences, the difference in targets most distinguishes the Islamic terrorist from guerrillas. The choice of civilian targets, and not military targets, accounts for alienating brutality and ineffectiveness of terrorism. When the guerrilla successfully attacks a military target, they become a hero for the people who come to resent the counterattacks of the military.

This would account for the momentary popularity in Iraq of guerrilla-like attacks against American convoys and mobile patrol units.

But Iraqi guerrilla attacks are carried out for the most part by former members of Hussein's despised regime or by fringe radical fundamentalists. Neither are strongly aligned with the people. This blunts the propaganda value of current guerrilla-like attacks in Iraq.

Islamic fundamentalists have achieved no military victories. Rather than changing regimes throughout the world, their brutality against civilians has resulted in the end of one Islamic regime (Afghanistan), end of a regime friendly to terrorists (Saddam's Iraq), the reversal of one regime that once strongly supported terrorists (Libya), Hamas being decimated, and terrorist movements in Southeast Asia and Central Asia are being countered aggressively.

You measure the effectiveness of a military by its ability to further political aims. Terrorists have failed to achieve any political goals. They measure their effectiveness by the number of bloody casualties achieved.

That is why we will defeat terrorism, specifically Islamic fundamentalist terrorists, although we will suffer many more casualties along the way.
 

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Well, we cant leave now. We went in there and overthrew their government so no matter how u look at it, we're now stuck there untill they can actually function on they're own. which wont be for a long time
 

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Well, I'd just like to point out that the third pic down is an IDF soldier. Not an American in Iraq.

I think that this war was necessary, but I don't think we went about it the right way. I know we can't use diplomacy when dealing with tyranical dictators, but I think that we could have waited a little more, in order to build a stronger case for war. Bush rushed into this war without gathering enough support in the first place, and also not having a true plan for 5-6+ years down the road.
 
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