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I loved it. Anytime Rodgers loses, ecspecially when it makes him look like he's going to cry in his milk, I'm all for it (being a Lions fan, Rodgers has a special place for me).

So regardless of if Seattle should have won or not (and while the call on THAT PLAY was correct, the pass interference call was totally off AND there should have been an offensive pass interference call on that play nullifying it), I'm all for a Green Bay loss.

I think it's funny that people are saying how bad the replacement refs are, but I've not seen any more glaring mistakes in 3 weeks than I saw last year from the greedy a-holes of the regular refs. Plenty of missed calls last year, and calls for the wrong thing. I think people that are making a big deal of it are looking at the past through rose-colored glasses.
 

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The reffs are doing best as they can, but they look like fools not knowing all the rules and constantly taking forever to determine the correct thing, and even to do timeouts correctly.

That touchdown call, no matter what happened previously, was perhaps one of the most controversial things that the NFL has seen in years.
 

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I was saving that bacon
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I would say 99% of the time the normal refs would have madE the same call.



If you missed it though the lockout is over, expect the actual refs back Sunday, but not tomorrow.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
(and while the call on THAT PLAY was correct, the pass interference call was totally off AND there should have been an offensive pass interference call on that play nullifying it)
granted yes, Tate had a blatant PI call but likewise if you watch the replay jennings also went over a seattle player to get to the ball so in reality there should have been PI calls both ways. I was talking with one of my co-workers today who said in the last 20 or so years for hail marries at the end of a game there has been no PI calls, now im not sure if its true or not but i sure can not remember any. I think the thought process is that under a microscope you can always find PI calls in a jump ball situation so if its going to happen both ways might as well let it happen. Personally I say let them duke it out in a situation like that. This is football, a contact sport, where would the fun be if every little touch was called, might as well call it soccer at that point

I would say 99% of the time the normal refs would have madE the same call.
ya even the booth review did not overturn it and later the NFL commission said it was the right call

granted beyond that call i believe there were reffing mistakes made in the rest of the game but they were mistakes that ended up benefiting BOTH teams if you look at the game as a whole so the game was played with ref mistakes but not to the point that they decided the game
 

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greedy a-holes of the regular refs.
I have to disagree with that assessment. Their contract with the NFL was up, and all they wanted was a modest raise (8%, i think - a couple hundred bucks a game) and protection for their pensions (which the NFL wanted to do away with). Keep in mind the highest-paid head refs only make something like $5-6k a game, tops. That really isn't a lot, considering the mammoth revenue produced by the sport and their responsibility for maintaining player safety and the integrity of the game, lots of travel and lots of study time.

The NFL ultimately decided that they could save a couple grand a game if they locked out the existing refs until they caved, and obviously that backfired on them. That's all this was about - a couple grand a game. Sad, really.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
not to mention as far as i know NFL refs are the only refs out of a major league sport that are payed on a part time basis, every other league has full time refs. Even though they put in around 35-40 hours a week between games, travel, study and film review they are only payed for up to about 20 hours of it.
 

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I was saving that bacon
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The NFL wanted to make them full time refs, they did not want to be made full time, because they all have normal jobs they get paid for as well. I wouldn't say normal, a lot of them are judges and lawyers etc, its not like they are broke.


Anyway, Some of them get $6,000 per game. 16 games a year is $96,000. They also get paid for the Pre-season games, post season, and during the training they receive. Then they have their pension plan, insurance, etc...


Also, I don't know any other part time jobs that offer any where near the benefits(insurance, pension, PAY, etc..) that they receive.




That being said, its obvious they are worth it, I have no problem with them getting paid more. I just have no respect for UNIONS. (i know many disagree, but unions had their place years ago, now they are terrible)
 

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Refs (who are PART TIME EMPLOYEES) make $150,000+ a year (according to reported statistics, that's the AVERAGE for an NFL ref). I dont' know the last time I had a PART TIME job that made that much.

And they were the ONLY people in the NFL that still have/had a pension (I haven't read what the NFL owners caved on).

While I have no issue with giving them a raise, I have issue with them demanding to remain part-time employees while making 6-figures. And refusing to give up their pensions like every other NFL employee has.
 

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I disagree with the assessment that the call on the last play was correct. It's true that simultaneous possession goes to the offensive player but it was clear that the defensive player had possession first meaning it was not simultaneous. The NFL said that choosing to not reverse the call after it was made was the right decision not that the call itself was correct. Once the ruling was made that it was simultaneous possession it should not be overturned but ruling it was simultaneous was incorrect.
 

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The NFL said that choosing to not reverse the call after it was made was the right decision not that the call itself was correct.
so let me get this straight, the booth reviewer, whos job it is IS TO turn over calls that are incorrect DID NOT overturn it and you are still trying to say it was a bad call? The NFL commission stated that all the grounds for simultaneous possession were there and agreed with the call not to overturn it....but its still the wrong call?

so i suppose by this argument we can fire both the booth reviewers and the NFL commission since they both obviously serve no purpose in the game at all.

it was a simultaneous first contact, but there is no way an argument could be made that seattle made first possession.. or simultaneous possession. he only had a hand behind the ball.
so then you would have to argue that making a 1 handed catch is not grounds for claiming possession. May want to call up all the receivers everywhere and tell them they can no longer make one handed catches

that aside by the time they hit the ground tate did have 2 hands on it anyway which is where possession comes into play, you can not claim possession in the air hence why you have to get 2 feet in bounds on a catch, also first contact has nothing to do with it, otherwise there are defensive linemen everywhere that when swatting a pass should be awarded possession

Both players met all the elements of a "catch" as described by the NFL rule book and therefor it is ruled a simultaneous possession.
 

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so let me get this straight, the booth reviewer, whos job it is IS TO turn over calls that are incorrect DID NOT overturn it and you are still trying to say it was a bad call? The NFL commission stated that all the grounds for simultaneous possession were there and agreed with the call not to overturn it....but its still the wrong call?

so i suppose by this argument we can fire both the booth reviewers and the NFL commission since they both obviously serve no purpose in the game at all.



so then you would have to argue that making a 1 handed catch is not grounds for claiming possession. May want to call up all the receivers everywhere and tell them they can no longer make one handed catches

that aside by the time they hit the ground tate did have 2 hands on it anyway which is where possession comes into play, you can not claim possession in the air hence why you have to get 2 feet in bounds on a catch, also first contact has nothing to do with it, otherwise there are defensive linemen everywhere that when swatting a pass should be awarded possession

Both players met all the elements of a "catch" as described by the NFL rule book and therefor it is ruled a simultaneous possession.

I think you're taking a pretty narrow view of the play as a whole and you also appear to be quite worked up about this so I'll try and make this as clear as I can while remaining as objective as I can.

First off, regarding the replay booth officials, they do not actually get to make final decisions regarding in-game rulings. In all scoring and turnover situations they review the play to determine if it's necessary for the in-game officials to review the ruling on the field. They don't choose whether or not to reverse the ruling themselves. In this case I'm fairly certain that it was sent down to the on-field officials indicating that they did find potential grounds for a reversal of the in-game ruling.

So no the booth reviewer's job is not to reverse calls nor is it the job of the NFL commissioner, that's why they hire the in-game officials. Saying that we should fire the replay officials and the commissioner because they don't serve a purpose due to the fact that they are not responsible for overturning in-game calls would be akin to saying that I should be fired from my job as a teacher because I don't dole out suspensions to students. Just because I don't serve THAT purpose does not mean that I do not serve a purpose. I'll re-state that the NFL did not say that the correct ruling was made on the field, their statement was that once the ruling was made it was correct not to overturn it as the decision in question was not a ruling that could be overturned.

Secondly, making a one handed catch is simply gaining possession with one hand, you must still demonstrate possession. Simply having your hand on the ball does not demonstrate possession such as cases in which the ground is used to assist the catch and are ruled incomplete. They still have their hand on the ball but they do not have possession.

Thirdly, you can demonstrate possession in the air, you just can't be awarded a complete pass until you have met the requirements of the catch. Possession must be established before you can establish your two feet in bounds in order to complete the action of completing the pass. MD Jennings gained possession of the ball and was in the process of completing the pass when Golden Tate placed his hand on the ball. The possession was not simultaneous which it turns out could have been overturned had the officials been adequately familiar with the rules of the game.

I'm neither a fan of Green Bay nor the Seahawks, just a fan of the game and sad to see that game outcomes are being affected by the inadequacies of the officials provided during the lockout.
 

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the burden of requiring "indisputable video evidence" to overturn a controversial ruling doesn't help matters, either.

But yes, I agree. Blatant lack of knowledge of game rules - it's like he's arguing just to argue. I honestly don't know anyone else even taking that side other than the save-face PR garbage released by the NFL. They don't dare admit the play was called wrong and reverse the results of the game - imagine the backlash.
 

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No, the booth is ONLY able to check that it:

Was not out of bounds, thus not being a catch
Did not hit the ground, thus not being a catch.

Nothing else are they able to decide. Since the refs ruled that it was simultaneous possession, there is nothing the booth can overturn regarding this. They also can't overturn anything due to penalties that were missed. They simply review every scoring play to verify that the ball crosses the plane of the goal line in bounds while the player establishes/mantains possession.
 

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what exactly was the "challenge"? if it was for possession... that's the call to check.... the booth judge can't call a PI... correct?
No challenge - all scoring plays are reviewed. Video evidence cannot prompt a late penalty call, but it can reverse some penalty calls. The review in this particular case had the onus of needing to irrefutably prove that the ref's determination of simultaneous possession was wrong in order to overturn the play as called.
 
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