Paintball Guns and Gear forums banner

1 - 20 of 111 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,001 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
so im not trying to start a huge debate but this is more of a political question its just that it revolves around a couple of cortroversal subjects

TWA flight 800 and 9/11

so i was watching the history channel a while back and they had a special on Twa flight 800 and the idea that it was shot down, no malfunction. I have to say, they had a pretty good amount of evidence to back it up. THe idea was that some muslum radicals (yes the same ones we are trying to fight right now in Iraq) fired a missle from a boat as the plane took off.

so just for a moment, lets assume thats what happened, and you could either tell the American public what happened or tell them it was an accident what would you do? In my mind it totally makes sence to tell the American public it was an accident and avoid a war. The difference with 9/11 was there is no way people would believe it if you told them 2 planes accidentally hit the 2 towers on the same day, but because of that day we are now in a war and have lost so many troops in that war.

So if something like a train derailed lets say (everybody dies), you knew it was some radical group just trying to kill people but you had the chance to tell the American public that it was a equipment malfunction and avoid a war,

would you?
 

·
i play for keeps
Joined
·
7,001 Posts
Whether you disclose the truth or provide a cover up comes in a case-by-case basis.

On the whole, I lean heavily toward disclosure of facts.

In this instance, why would you not disclose this? If a relative was killed because of a TWA plane malfunction, I'd want to find the mechanics responsible for that flight.

How can you possibly try to cover up the fact that there are muslim terrorists in the world that want nothing less than the full destruction of the western civilizations? That's very naive to want to try and cover it up. What would you do instead? Keep it hidden and let muslim radicals keep striking? There will always be radicals out to get us, but I'd want everyone to know about the douchebags coming after us. To not inform people is naive, sick, twisted, and makes no sense.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,001 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I wasnt saying to try and cover up that there are muslim radicals, just that they are the ones responcible, if you point the finger at someone, people want revenge, if you point the finger at something, nobody goes to war. If you look at what they blaimed for the TWA crash, ever wonder why it never happened to any other planes?

if that is what happened with twa, then all it did was delay this war we are now in. this war that we are loosing because we are fighing it their way, yes its a physical war but also look at how much its costing us every day we are over there. This is what they want, im not saying we give up but we need to find a better way to fight that wont bleed our government of cash.

back to twa though, lets say you had a relitive on that flight, what would you do if you found the mechanics? afterall they said the malfunction was in the fuel tank. when was the last time you looked in your gas tank? I do regular maintanance on my marker but it still breaks. Yes one plane crashed but think about all the others that didnt because of these mechanics. That kind of attitude is one reason why good doctors cost so much, all the ones that had made one mistake, their licence was pulled because someone wanted revenge. Ever hear of the Kansas City Hyatt Regency Hotel Walkway Collapse? Even though it was not their fault, the engineers who desiged the walkways had their licences pulled. They designed it correctly but it was installed wrong and someone wanted revenge.

so if you knew you could avoid a war simply by blaming something mechanical instead of a group you would still tell the truth and send our troops to war?
 

·
i play for keeps
Joined
·
7,001 Posts
Blame should be placed on the ones responsible, plain and simple. Go after the radical muslims, don't let TWA and all the jobs in the company suffer because of a cover up.

You don't lie to people when deaths are involved. Sure people want revenge, that's a naturally human impulse. That doesn't mean people don't deserve to know the truth.

Simply, you can't justify your actions now by something that may or may not happen in the future. If you do, you become a moral relativist. Moral relativism is an evil, evil thing.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,001 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
yes but if telling them the truth is only going to cause more deaths, whats the point?

im not saying its right to lie to people but if I was faced with the choice of lying to people or sending them to their deaths, Id lie to them.

granted that is in the perfect conditions if i knew a attack wouldnt happen again. the situation we are in now is not the case, yes i see the attacks would have continued unless we did something about it. in that sence we have been forced to action.

anyone else have an opinion?
 

·
i play for keeps
Joined
·
7,001 Posts
I understand where you are coming from, and it makes sense...but I just wouldn't see those perfect conditions ever existing in the real world, ya know? How would we ever know there isn't going to be another Muslim-radical attack, if the information is hidden from the public? See where I'm going...it's a nice though in theory, but would never be a positive implementation.

My take is that it's a cruel world. Shielding people from the ugly only debilitates them. Knowing the truth enables people possibly yes, to take revenge. It also enables them to make the most informed decisions.
 

·
I was saving that bacon
Joined
·
7,177 Posts
To the general question you asked, yes. If it was for the greater good for somebody to not know something, then they shouldn't know.


But for the TWA thing, nah, I wouldn't lie to avoid a war.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,001 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
My take is that it's a cruel world. Shielding people from the ugly only debilitates them. Knowing the truth enables people possibly yes, to take revenge. It also enables them to make the most informed decisions.
i kinda agree with that however, in the heat of the moment people will back a war for revenge and not think it through. Right after 9/11 when the first idea of a war against those who did it came around a lot of people were behind the war, now i think if you took the same poll the numbers would be a lot different. If people would make decisions based on logic and not emotion then yes i would say tell them the truth nomatter what. but people dont, they act first and point the finger later.

I have to wonder though, lets say 9/11 happened and then we didnt find out who was responsible untill 6 months later, i have to wonder what the numbers would be on how many supported the war then.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,191 Posts
hard to really get to know the truth about TWA flight 800 but the animation that the CIA or whatever made explaining what happened was a load of ****. apparently the front end of the plane popped off so that means the fuselage was completely open in the front. yet the back portion of the airplane, wings and all, started pitching upwards. basic aerodynamics says LOL
 

·
Anne Coulter's #1 Fan
Joined
·
4,291 Posts
hard to really get to know the truth about TWA flight 800 but the animation that the CIA or whatever made explaining what happened was a load of ****. apparently the front end of the plane popped off so that means the fuselage was completely open in the front. yet the back portion of the airplane, wings and all, started pitching upwards. basic aerodynamics says LOL
Losing the front part of the plane wouldn't make it back heavy and at high speeds lift up?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,001 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
...What do you mean "to avoid a war"? Did you catch that whole Afghanistan/Iraq war thing that's been going on for 5-6 years?
yes but if flight 800 was actually shot down and the public knew thats what happened it could have started the war. instead 9/11 is what started our current situation. flight 800 started nothing because everyone thinks it was a mechanical failure, an accident. but if you KNEW that it was shot down would you tell the american public that it was a mechanical failure in order to avoid something like the situation we are now in?

hard to really get to know the truth about TWA flight 800 but the animation that the CIA or whatever made explaining what happened was a load of ****. apparently the front end of the plane popped off so that means the fuselage was completely open in the front. yet the back portion of the airplane, wings and all, started pitching upwards. basic aerodynamics says LOL
does it really matter what happened after the explosion? end result = everyone dies, doesnt matter if the plane went up down or sideways first.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,001 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Have I ever flamed you?

what? i wasnt flaming you, i just fond that a bit funny so i wanted to coment on it, im a designer myself and i would find it hilarious if someone asked me, "you mean you actually plan where the sprinkler heads go?"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
86 Posts
Responding to OP. We are not fighting the muslim radicals that attacked the twin towers and are believed by some to have attacked 800 in Iraq. Relating muslim radicals/al-quaida/and the taliban to Iraq was a gov't ploy to gain support in order to gain a foot hold in the middle-east for economical gain through vast expanses of oil rich land. And yes i would cover up something if i thought it were for the good of the public. I prefer people living happily with a gov't doing its job efficiently rather than a public in terror (the goal of terrorists) constantly verbally attacking the gov't and slowing its ability to actualy stop those who wrong the public.
 
1 - 20 of 111 Posts
Top