"Antique" SL-68 II - Paintball Forum - Paintball guns and gear forums

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Old May 17th, 2009, 08:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
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"Antique" SL-68 II

My First Paintball Marker - a $20 Flea Market Special!

Now that I seem to be getting a handle on what this darn thing IS, I find it interesting that people still USE this model - and some of you who know a LOT more about this than I do actually LIKE it!

FYI I've been a "Gun Crank" and shooter near all my adult life - and that's been a while since I'll be 61 in August. How many of us old gaffers have you got in here?

About any kind of "gun" will get my interest, and these paintball rigs are no exception. As a Civil War Reenactor, I tried to "invent" a paintball musket so as to combine the two sports - although I guess "Living History" is more of an "obsession" than a "sport" per se. Knowing Zip to little about PB technology I never really got the project off the ground, but had an eye out for a marker in order to get a handle on the system. What I really wanted was a cheap or busted one that I could tear apart to see what makes it "tick".

The other day I checked out a local "flea market" which is typically packed jam full of JUNK, and noticed a marker sitting on top of a pile. I was attracted to it's solid metal construction, and tight "feel" of the action.

The proprietor - about my vintage - said it was his Son's and he wanted $25 for it. He also had a box of 1000 (or so he claimed) paintballs for the same price. It rattled when I gently shook it suggesting that at least some of them are still intact.

After perusing the rest of the collection, I offered him $40 cash (out of my "gun money") for both and he accepted it.

The only indication of it's type was "SL-68 II" cast into the left side:

....

It seems to be in pretty good shape overall:

...

..

.........

The only marker I've shot was one that my Nephews brought over for a family picnic one day. The rocks, trees, and even my mailbox (those rascals!) were all splattered with bright green paint for some time thereafter. They were shooting right out over a ravine where some neighbors live in a trailer (when I wasn't looking, of course) and I'm amazed that they didn't get a few splats too.

Since the tank seems to be empty, where can I get it refilled?
We have an air compressor that will crank out at least 120# - is there any way that I can get an adaptor to pressurize the tank with air?
Given my vintage and general state of decrepitation, I don't anticipate running many intense PB courses, but I would like to fool around with it.

Where can I get a manual or parts diagram so that I can properly maintain / repair / field strip & adjust it?

Thanks 4 your suggestions in advance.
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Old May 17th, 2009, 08:32 PM   #2 (permalink)
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A tank that old needs to be tested before it's filled; since testing costs just as much as a new tank, I'd suggest picking up a new tank at wal-mart or a sporting goods store.

What that type of tank holds, is liquid co2. Most sporting goods stores will fill it for you, as will any paintball field that still carries co2 (co2 is being quickly replaced with compressed air tanks because of eletropneumatic solenoids used in the newer,faster markers)

to find people with solid information of this beast, check out mcarterbrown.com, it's a forum full of people who love old markers like this
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Old May 17th, 2009, 09:16 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Unhappy ... Upon Closer Examination...


I think I might have an inkling as to why I got such a "deal" on this marker - but from what I'm seeing here I'm not complaining, as I suppose that it's fixable.

Finding a phillips head screwdriver that fit through the hole through the head of the end cap, I wound it out and retrieved the little rattly - parts that I could dig out.

...And here they are:



Since some of the little black plastic things were not shown on the exploded parts diagram that I located on line, I became a bit suspicious.

Looking up the breech I can see daylight through the little tube which I assume may be part of the valve mechanism:



A black plastic washer around it appears to be pretty beat up.

With the unit assembled, when I blow up the intake port in the grip where the tank attaches, air hisses out through the barrel both in the cocked and uncocked mode.
I do NOT take this to be a good sign!!

Opinions, please?

Since parts for this "relic" seem to be still available - although I get the impression from the TIPPMAN site that they no longer carry them and I can't find anything for this gun on mcarterbrown.com - I should be able to get this marker up and running again. Or at least hope to...

What I need is some advice / directions for taking this thing apart in order to replace whatever it is that's busted.

Thanks again - UJ in ME

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Old May 17th, 2009, 09:21 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I was thinking about trying to thread a tire valve nipple into the brass nut on the mouth of the tank in order to charge it off of the air compressor. How many PSI were these things designed to hold, anyway?
My old one-lunger chug-&-wheeze compressor (which I scrounged out of the dump and hooked up to an old washing machine motor) will pump up around 120PSI on a good day.

Any other adapters out there? Can a quick release air coupling be rigged up to make it like a Mechanic's air hammer?
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Old May 17th, 2009, 10:27 PM   #5 (permalink)
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A high quality HPA tank will hold 4500psi
A co2 tank is not designed to hold straight HPA, and will blow a burst disk at around 1700 psi

Go to mcarterbrown.com and ask those people, they are better suited to give you information on this kind of topic.
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Old May 18th, 2009, 12:00 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Thumbs up McCarterBrown

Thanx 4 the tip - the first time I went to Mccarter Brown I didn't find much, but after your suggestion went back and tried again - this time found the "Forum" and lo and behold there is a fair amount of stuff regarding my "relic".

Have since registered and posted some of my questions over there.
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Old May 18th, 2009, 11:49 AM   #7 (permalink)
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you wont be able to fire that marker off the 120 psi of your compressor, it needs about 750psi to fire. not to mention, never try to fill a paintball tank with air from a garage compressor, the air they put out is dirty and wet compaired to the stuff scuba compressors put out, not something you want running through your marker.

that marker looks to be in pretty good shape, id say look around on ebay for a seal kit, you can offten find one with all the o-rings you need to rebuild it for a few bucks, however this being so old you may need to look around a bit harder.
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Old May 18th, 2009, 01:22 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Cool

Thanks for that info - my hopes for charging this thing on the cheap just went out the window I guess.

Do the tanks hold their charge pretty well after partial discharge after they are removed from the marker? Since I'll probably be one of the "fooling around in the back yard" paintballers rather than a serious competitor (or even a casual competitor for that matter) it might take me a while to go through a tank of air or Co2. I'd hate to waste it.

Do those "seal kits" come with the "cup seal"? I think that those little black pieces of plastic that were rattling around in the breech of this marker might be pieces of what once was my cup seal - do they look like it to you?
Do any other markers use a compatible seal that might work if I can't get the real deal? I don't suppose many of these things are standardized, are they?

It seems that one weak point of these guns is the feed tube neck. Apparently they tend to crack / break after multiple hopper changes. That cast aluminum just isn't all that flexible and I assume that it stress fatigues from repetitive loosening and tightening.

Mine seems to have some excess metal or some "flashing" in the space between the halves of the split neck, which would block the sides from drawing together to grip the hopper tube when the screw is tightened.



I intend to clean that slot out with a file and re paint if necessary.

There is also a little block of metal that seems to be a "sprue" where the metal might have flowed up one of the vents in the mold.



I wonder if this stress fatigue issue might be helped by annealing the aluminum around the top of that feed neck to make it more ductile and less brittle?
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Old May 18th, 2009, 01:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
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sl 68, Marker Parts Accessories, Air Systems Accessories items on eBay.com

here is a quick search i did on ebay, there is a compete hammar and valve on there right now, i didnt see a o-ring kit though, and chances are you may not find one, however o-rings are pretty standard, your best bet would be to take it down to your local paintball shop and take any o-rings out that you need replaced, chances are they will be able to find one for you. and im not sure really how many o-rings you need, on that diagram i see one on the tank and one on the valve body. if thats all you need then this will be simpler than i am making it out to be. i think you have the right idea about a file for the excess metal you have on your feedeck, im not sure what annealing will do to it, iv never heard of anyone attempting it on their marker. you are going to need a screw to make that feedneck functional again though.
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Old May 19th, 2009, 09:01 AM   #10 (permalink)
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CO2 tanks will hold pressure for a long long time unless they have a leak, which isn't usually a problem. I've let them go for about 5 months filled before without an issue...would have gone longer but they were needed. Sporting goods stores, Dicks, Dunhams, I think Gander Mtn, and the like will fill them for a couple bucks.

There's a date code near the neck of the tank you have, if its more than five years old it'll want retested before anyone will fill it. Issue is that the test costs as much as a new tank, so... Pick up a new one? That one looks like a 20oz tank, smaller will also work fine. Should run you between $10-20 for a new one. Might come with a free fill (sold empty).

A problem you might not have come across yet is that modern hoppers are too large for the SL's feedneck. You'll either want a smaller 'pocket hopper' or an adapter for a new hopper with the thicker neck.



That's the one I use, I made some quick and dirty cuts in it so it would tighten. You can see that I don't even use the tightening screw in the gun's feedneck. The friction fit was more than enough.

A few years ago Tippmannparts.com had a clearance sale on the remaining SL-68-II parts kits. I already had one and was broke as a joke at the time, so I didn't get any extra. They were great- all the parts to rebuild the gun about twice in a neat little storage box. There might be some floating around the market out there, here's a link to what small parts they've got left... Tippmann SL-68 II Paintball Gun Repair Parts

These things getting old, but fortunately there's not much that can break on them.

I'll help if I can, and I'm sure MCB is coming up with all sorts of info.
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Old May 19th, 2009, 10:03 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Question Thanx!

I think that if I can score a cup seal that I'll be good to go - although a ring set wouldn't hurt any. Someone said that a Spyder seal might work as a substitute - do you know anything about that?



With my "Curio & Relic" Federal firearms license I occasionally get some good deals on old military surplus "beaters" that I enjoy fixing up, so I sort of have an affinity for old obsolete guns and scrounging up or fabricating parts for them.
This PB gun fits right into my tinkering fetish!

Say; I notice that you are into R&D; Back a couple of years ago I had an idea as a Civil War Reenactor (Co. A 3rd Maine) of combining pb with reenacting. Authenticity would have to be compromised a little on account of safety equipment, but I don't see that as a major hurdle. We would be doing this for fun, not for public "living history" reenactments where we use real muskets firing black powder blanks.

My .69 cal. smoothbore Model 1842

....

takes a paintball and with a squib charge of about 5 grains of FFG and a good thick wad of toilet paper it will put out a paint ball... sometimes intact, even!

I splatted my old shed with a couple. Of course by the time decent velocity is approached they come out as a cloud of smoke and spray!

Of course we would never use anything powder propelled at live opponents.
There is also a CO2 charged "discharger" device for clearing obstructions (like a ball loaded without powder) from a muzzle loader. It occured to me that if such a rig could be activated by the fall of the hammer it would make a dandy PB launcher, and those pesky Rebels who keep yelling that we missed 'em would know for SURE!



In the CW they used to line up shoulder to shoulder by the thousands on the battlefield and volley away at each other. With the advent of the rifled musket those old Napoleonic tactics proved to be horrendously costly in terms of casualties.



That's my outfit at the 130th Aniversary reenactment of Antietam. The Corn Field is directly to our front. As soon as we charged through the corn, the Rebs stood up from a stone wall - just as they did then - and volleyed thunderously into our teeth.

I died.

Again... (I did that a lot)

Replicating such an encounter even on a small scale with paintball would surely be instructive as to what those old Veterans endured.

The original 1842 was loaded with a 1-oz. lead ball along with 3 .32 cal. buck shot; "Buck & Ball" over 95 grains of black powder. Now you want to hang on tight when you touch one of those off!

The Irish were particularly fond of it. Not all that accurate, but devastating at close range, as the Rebs in the Sunken Road at Antietam found out. The Micks were fond of bayonet and buttstock close up and personal as well.

I put away my drawings and parts when we moved a couple of years ago and I have yet to dig it back out, as I really don't know enough about PB tech... yet.
But if I can team up with someone who does and has an interest in history, who knows were it could go?

By the way; the '42 is essentially a copy of a French musket that was a slightly modified version of the Charleville, which was used by a lot of Colonial Minutemen during the American Revolution. Substitute the percussion lock with a flintlock, and you could do splatball RevWar, too!

That might make a reenactment of Lexington or Concord somewhat more interesting!
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Old May 19th, 2009, 12:09 PM   #12 (permalink)
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The large thrid part (On the right in the last picture) of the cupseal you have there makes me think it was fixed or attempted to be fixed in the past. Looks like a rubber washer or something.


Check the threads on the valve stem; they're probably just barbs.

I took a spyder cup seal out of the magic toolbox o' parts and measured it against a SL-68-II cupseal. Deciding they were close enough in most dimensions and I had very little chance of harming anything, I went for it.

I drilled out the threads on the Spyder part to 7/32" (using the "Bout that size" method) and put it onto the Tippmann valve stem. I decided it fit pretty well and then noticed that I needed to have put the valve back onto the stem before putting the cupseal in place. Taking the seal back off, I scratched it up a little. That wasn't the best thing to do.

My SL accepted the new assembly without being too upset. It had a slight and constant leak once I put pressure to it. I didn't have any paintballs on hand, nor a chronograph, so I can't say how well it would have performed.

I'll chalk the leak up to a few things-

1. I scratched the sealing surface of the cupseal up when I took it off after forgetting to put the valve onto the stem first.
2. I drilled it by hand, and might not have been all that concentric.
3. The Tippmann seals are rubber, and the Spyder seal is a much harder plastic.

The internets say Lapco makes a cupseal for the Spyder that is a little softer than the stock part. I'd give that a try unless there's a better/softer one out there.

Using paintballs in a reenactment for fun would be something I'm sure. Did you shoot any over a chronograph during your shed blasting experiment?
Using that CO2 concept would be neat. I'm sure that could be done with all the different technology out in today's paintball world.


Edited to add- These are SL-68-II valve assemblies. The white cupseal on the left is the Spyder part. The black one is stock equipment for the gun. The extended nub on the top of the Spyder part isn't really that crucial in length- its mostly a spring guide. The collar section on the Tippmann measured to .210" and the Spyder .248", so the valve spring will be compressed a little more. The Spyder seal is also wider: .409" to .386".

Both of these have marks all over the sides from being grabbed carelessly with pliers...the surface that seals against the valve is the important part. Sadly, on the Spyder seal, I scratched that too. It wasn't flexible enough to be taken off the barbs without prying like the rubber Tippmann seal.
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Last edited by Torch; May 19th, 2009 at 12:14 PM..
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Old May 21st, 2009, 07:54 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Cupseal Substitutions...

Jolly good then, Torch!

Do you happen to know which model of Spyder gun that cup seal was made for?

Would it be out of a set like this:



"Kingman Spyder O-Ring and Cup Seal Kit"

From: Kingman Spyder O-Ring and Cup Seal Kit by Kingman, Kingman Spyder Gun Upgrades at Paintball Express.com?

I could probably use a set of "O" rings too; any suggestions?
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 05:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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It's from a Spyder Imagine...All of the models used to have the same valve system in them, so the parts were the same. The new VS series of spyders may be different. I've never taken one of those apart.

The O-rings in the SL are odd little things compared to a Spyder kit, where all of them are the same size and largely interchangeable. Plumbing section of the hardware store maybe? I'll measure the ones I have if you find you need to find a replacement. The ones you have might work perfectly once you get the valve together though.
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Old May 23rd, 2009, 07:41 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Yankee Improvisation:

The Hardware store is a source for many of my doodads and gimcracks used in the course of my tinkering and occasional inventing, so it was only natural that I peruse it's nooks & crannies in search of something that might be adapted as the basis for a home made cup seal.

I actually found a couple of promising products which have absolutely nothing to do with paintball; In the electrical section I found an assortment of very promising rubber bushings, and in automotive parts some rubber "bumper" (like little buttons with barbed shanks that fit into little holes in sheet metal) that seemed to have potential. I even picked up a little white nylon "spacer" that looked interesting.

....

Using a hole punch from my leather working kit, I punched a little disk out of a piece of scrap flexible plastic (part of an old sneaker I think) and hot glued it over the end. That was a bit of a trick.



When i put it all back together I could no longer blow air through the gun, which I take to be a good sign. Now I'll have to buy a tank (about $33 at the same hardware store) and see it it works.

On that valve body - the little cylinder with the two O-rings that slides back & forth on the power tube - there is a little lip around the central hole on one end. Is that supposed to face back towards the cup seal? I seem to recall thats the way it was when I dug it out of the gun so that's how I replaced it.
On the schematic it sort of looks that way, but it's kind of hard to tell for sure.

Can the same tank be filled with air or Co2, or are they separate types?
My tank is probably out dated so I'll just take it out to the range and perforate it with my old .44. Should I wind out the brass neck valve first - are they re usable?
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Old May 26th, 2009, 06:37 AM   #16 (permalink)
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That creation looks like it should work. Neat.

The side of the valve with the raised lip faces the cupseal.

CO2 tanks are filled with CO2. Air won't work. It's a fairly simple setup, but unless you're going to be filling a bunch of them, and often, easier to just have the shop do it.

The brass part, the pin valve, should be reusable. I haven't had one break to the point of needing replaced yet, but could happen. They can be removed. It may have loctite or some thread sealant on it, heat it if needed since you won't be worried about the integrity of the tank when you're done. Be sure the tank is completely empty before working on it; taking apart a tank with pressure in it will be exciting to say the least.
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Old May 26th, 2009, 07:15 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Thanks again Torch; I'm going to be out & about today getting my Toyota RAV4 tinkered with (love that thing; it thinks it's a jeep or sometimes even a tractor) so will try to pick up a tank of gas somewhere as the curiosity to see if this thing will work is getting me antsy!

Over on the "Antique PB" forum Maj. Tom opined that the "brim" on my seal, which I copied off of the remains of the original (and now we wonder if in fact it was the original) might obstruct proper gas flow to the tube. I notice that the OEP does not seem to have much of a "brim" at all - just a base with a slightly larger diameter than the "top" which I assume is supposed to fit up inside the coils of the valve spring(?). I wish someone out there with a micrometer would measure an original up and send me the specs to work with.

If that larger dia. "brim" is problematical, I can trim it off with scissors, or start over with a different bushing. They have quite a selection down at the hardware store to choose from. Since that busted "washer" part seems to have a corner busted or cut out of it, I wonder if the former owner who tried to re create the seal had that problem and chopped a hunk out in order to let the gas go by?

Hopefully by this afternoon or tomorrow sometime I'll let you know if the old SL is pitching paintballs out into the woods out back ... or not... ...
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Old May 26th, 2009, 05:51 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Fizzzzz...

Well, I got a 12 oz. Co2 tank, and they filled it for free. Cost me about $32.

Eventually got to screwing it into the SL, and it emitted a sort of fizzing sound, which did not change when I cocked the gun and pulled the trigger. Holding my hand over the muzzle I could not feel any "puff" of Co2 coming out when I pulled the trigger.

Obviously, my home made cup seal is a failure...

Picked up a couple more bushings and a rubber grommet that has potential...

Back to the old drawing board.
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Old November 30th, 2009, 11:57 PM   #19 (permalink)
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tippmann just remade that marker so i am sure it is possible that you can get a repair kit from them for cheap and if you go to oklahoma dday this summer they should be there and if so the techs would probably fix it for free
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Old December 1st, 2009, 07:36 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Smile SL-68 Redeaux!

Wow!; That is good news!

My Nephew gave me a Spyder cup seal that had potential - I drilled the center bore out as best I could (It's a real bugger holding that thing steady without crushing it in order to drill it straight) and it seemed to try real hard, but still leaked.
Got the bright idea of heating the valve stem and sort of melting the seal on the last little bit, but when I tried to push the seal on, the stem flipped over in the vise and the seal went flying. Search around the shop as I might, I can't find the bloody little thing.

If tippman is making another run of these markers I suppose that long-gone parts might also become available again, including that blasted seal. Since the rest of the gun is in really good shape, it bears fixing.

In the event that I can get this old rig up and running again, it ought to be a dilly!

Have not heard any feedback on my paintball musket idea.

Would think that facsimile M-1 Garands and K-98 Mauser markers would be a big hit at events like your "D-Day" reenactment. A good square hit on a steel pot or Stalhelm ought to ring it pretty well. My old Army helmet used to ring like a church bell when an ejected .45 casing bounced off of it!

Thanks 4 the update!
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