how much gas is lots to Cyclone - Paintball Forum - Paintball guns and gear forums

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Old June 3rd, 2009, 09:28 AM   #1 (permalink)
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how much gas is lots to Cyclone

hello all

i am fairly settled on the A-5 for my first marker. there is just the one issue i want to settle, apparently the Cyclone feeder results in air hogging.

how much so?

could i just get an electric hopper instead?
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 09:54 AM   #2 (permalink)
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The Cylcone doesn't use extra gas it uses excess gas that is gas that was already used to cycle the marker. If you want an electric hopper buy a 98C and use an electric hopper it is the same marker on the inside as the A5 anyway.
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 12:42 PM   #3 (permalink)
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the a-5 does use more gas than the 98, even though its excess as crawdaddy said, anytime you are restricting the gas you will need to use more to apply force to the bolt, basically once the cyclone is on the bolt has to push the gas out slightly so it will turn the cyclone, this results in the bolt needing more force itself, more force is applyed when more gas is used, its not crazy amounts but you will see a difference over a tank when compairing it to something like the 98 or a spyder

if i may ask, why did you settle on the A-5?
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 01:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
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thnaks chaps

i chose the A-5 over the 98 because it seemed more customisable. its not that i want lots of snazy scopes and laser sights, but i like the marksman approach (no not 'sniper', i am well aware of what you all think of that term ).
i want to make sure there is a good ironsight on the marker (possible an ajustable one for different ranges), and i thought that the more customizable A-5 might allow instalation of a good sight.

though to be honest i am not bothered about start up costs (budget $800)i can easily fork out for one big purchase, i am more bothered about running costs;

-paint
-gas
-maintinence

thats why i was concerned about wasted gas from the cyclone, it would result in costing more.
i am a student so money is very tight!

as i said, i like the hardcore marksman approach, i am in the territorial army so i take small factors such as;

-breathing paterns
-elevation
-wind
-enemy phsycology
-camoflauge
-patience

into effect.
and i dont care much about mil-sim, just a quality marker

with the &800 budget in mind, what is a good WOODSBALL marker that is:

-accurate
-cheap to use (gas wise)

thank you all so much, you are all so great for helping out the beginers


EDIT- oh, and the flatline barrel, is it anygood for a marksman?. from what i have gathered, it seems that it does not increase the range, but changes the trajectory path.
so a regular barrel will cause a slow downwards ark, and a flatline barrel will cause the ball to go straght for most of the journey and fall fast at the end. thus improving accuracy

is that right?

thanks all

Last edited by pond weed; June 3rd, 2009 at 01:36 PM..
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 01:58 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pond weed View Post
-breathing paterns
-elevation
-wind
-enemy phsycology
-camoflauge
-patience



-accurate
-cheap to use (gas wise)
well your off to a decent start, but i wanted to touch on these issues as well as the flatline and a few more, breathing patterns, they do not matter, you dont have a huge range like a firearm and paintballs are a liquid filled sphere rolling through the air so they are inharently not the most accurate objects ever. elevation, as far as a major elevation as in above 3000 ft, does not matter, everyone will be there, as far as elevation on the field of play, high ground is always an advantage, wind, well theres no way other than practice to get used to what your paint will do on windy days, and even then you have to adjust on the fly, enemy psychology....i have no idea what you are getting at with that, camo, in my opinion is one of the most over rated pieces of equipment, it will not help you at all if you dont know how to move right, i suggest learning the basics before attemting to utalize camo, patience is always good. knowing when to pull the trigger is good, knowing when to wait is better

as far as your two issues when looking for a marker, no marker is going to be more accurate than the next one, how the marker works does not change how the physics work when the paintball leaves the barrel, the barrel can be a good help to accuracy, good paint is always the best way to improove accuracy, all paint is not equel. useing HPA instead of CO2 can also help accuracy

as for the marker you are looking for i STONGLY suggest you look into something else, the best way to aim in paintball is not with a sight of anykind, moreover a sight will show you where the paint might go at best. but will never show you where the paint goes everytime. the best way to sight is to look down the side of your marker right along the barrel, yes it takes a little getting used to but it will still give you some sence of where you are pointing the marker and as an added bonus you will keep a lower profile since you will not have to get your head on top of the marker in order to sight it. see the picture below




so if that is how you are sighting your marker then the whole market is open to you.

so lets see your looking for a woodsball marker secondly, well no marker cares where it is when it is being used, so that means there are no "woodsball" or "speedball" markers, there are only higher preformance markers and lower preformance markers and with your budget you could easily get a used high end marker (this being your first marker i would not suggest this though)

so here are a few markers i will suggest
spyder vs1-will work on Co2, it is a good marker for the price has vision which most entry level markers do not, this means you will not chop paint while firing
spyder vs2-will only work off of HPA, similar to the vs1 except has a balance valve to reduce kick and a regulator so it soots more consistant
Smart Parts Ion XE (not the normal Ion)- this honestly would probably be your best pick, it is similar to the normal ion but they use a body which enables you to take the bolt out of the back of the marker, thus eliminating all the maintanance and broken parts caused by the bad design of the ion, will only work off HPA, is a faily efficient marker (better than any tippmann or spyder anyway) has eyes, and a fully electro-pnumatic design (means its very fast with almost no kick compaired to the spyders or tippmanns) regulator standard and is VERY upgradable (more than the A-5 even)
PMR(proto matrix rail) basically a high end marker with a budget price, will be higher preformance than the ion, works differently but will also need more TLC and maintanance is a bit more envolving

o and the flatline does not give you any additional useable range, it will make the paint go further but at the "added" range the paintballs will not break they will just bounce off whatever they hit

hope this helps

edit: i forgot to mention "ranges" you mentioned you wanted the sight to be adjustable for different ranges, well the thing is even if paintballs had a common flight path (which they do not) everyone would have the same range because they will all be shooting at the same speed, and i can tell you from personal experience your not going to be fiddeling with sights in the middle of the game, reloading is enoufgh of a chalange while under fire you are not going to be adjusting things as well. but lets say your not under fire in normal conditions, so you adjust the sight, you fire, the paintball curves left as it goes and misses your target (yes they curve) so now they know where you are and they are moving up to get a closer shot, now your busy defending your position the range on the sight has become useless since they have moved and now when you line up a shot it will go too high since you have your sight set to a longer range, so then you just ignore what the sight is telling you and shoot by feel which is what im saying you should be doing anyway, you line up your first shot, if it misses you adjust from there, in paintball it is more accuracy through volume rather than pin point accuracy, chances are, if you put enoufgh paint out there one will hit
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Last edited by Trbo323; June 3rd, 2009 at 02:16 PM..
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 03:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
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wow

thank you for taking the time to write all of that.
there is one last thing i am confused with.
its the different tank propelants.

there is c02, high pressured air, nitrous somthing (cant remember the full name)

how do they work?
which are cheapest?
which are best?
are there any others?
and how and where do you re-fill them?

i didnt describe my playstyle very well, i was trying to avoid an essay. what i mean by enemy pshycology is, where is the target likely to move next, will he turn his head can i advance unseen, which side of the baricade will his head pop mout of next. -predicting enemy movement-. but i still love the synergy of team work

oh and i have one unrelated question:

atm, i go to my local deltforce PB centre (UK), which is 20 pounds entry, and 7 pound for 100 balls. aswell as the crappy rental markers wich jam EVERY time, the price is crazy.
i know you live in states, but do you know of PB comunities where players get together and play. i am aware of official PB teams that do tournament play, but im not a fan of speedball.
if i want to play woodsball/rec, do i HAVE to go to the local BD centre/field.
what about casual pb teams, which just play friendly games in eg private woodland

how do i get in contact with such teams/comunities



thank you so much, you are a star
have a nice day

Last edited by pond weed; June 3rd, 2009 at 03:26 PM..
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Old June 5th, 2009, 01:24 PM   #7 (permalink)
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for propelants there is only HPA and CO2, nitros (as in nitros oxide or NOS) is never used in paintball. the markers do not combust anything (with the exception of 1 marker that ran on propane) they only use the physical energy in the tank so buying something like NOS would be a huge waste of money if your not going to combust it. CO2 tanks are always cheaper as they only need to hold about 1000 psi at most, so the metal can be thinner, less metal = less cost. HPA tanks however must hold either 3000 or 4500 psi and must have a regulator attached. CO2 will also, per volume, have more shots in the tank, so your probably thinking by now that co2 is better right? not so much, for some players it is if you can not get fills or if you are strapped for cash. The problem with co2 is that it is not consistant, since it is stored in the tank as a liqued it has to boil and turn to a gas before the marker can use it, sometimes a little more boils off and sometimes not as much does after a shot, this results in a psi fluxuation that will cause "spikes" meaning some paintballs will go faster than others and others will go slower. cosistancy is what it comes down to really. another issue is sometimes liquid co2 can be siphoned up into the marker before it has a chance to turn to gas, if this liquid gets into the workings of the marker it can blow gaskets and just cause lots of problems wich is the main reason some markers (like the xe) are "HPA only" markers like the vs1 can handel the liquid co2 if it does get up in there. (also if you need more info look in the new player section and one of the threads at the top is called "HPA Q&A" it can be helpfull) so HPA tanks, because they have a regulator on them will have a constant output that does not change (if y ou put the full 4500 psi in a tank into the marker it would blow apart so the regulator takes that down to around 750 psi, which is the pressure that co2 is normally at, and this is why for markers like the vs1 you can take a co2 tank off and put a hpa tank on and keep playing)

so as far as initial cost the co2 tank is cheaper, filling them both is about the same though (just depends on where you go)

as far as that paragraph about where you play, i think you are trying to ask if people play outside of a paintball field, the answer is yes, it is offten refered to as "outlaw ball" i play with some friends of mine in some back woods around where i live, there are no field fees and we bring a few scuba tanks to fill our HPA tanks as we play. its just a matter of finding people and a location. as far as how to find people, i have no idea, thats up to you, gennerally it is not a huge organized thing, its just people out having fun.

one thing you NEED to do before commiting to buy a marker though is find out if you can get HPA fills, there will be no point in buying an XE if you can only use CO2 because you can not get a HPA fill, check with your local shop/field first and make sure to ask if they fill to 3000 or 4500 psi. if they do not fill HPA tanks try to find a scuba shop or a welding shop, they can offten do it as well, o and firestations can sometimes. good luck, ill be back on on Monday
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